Changes to paypal for the US in November The infection spreads

From auctionbytes

PayPal spent the week reminding sellers and off-eBay merchants about its new policy regarding buyer claims through an email campaign. eBay also reminded sellers that Buyer Protection cases would count as part of their performance standards beginning this month. Neither policy has been greeted favorably by marketplace sellers or online merchants - said one reader, "the days where PayPal was good for your site / bad if you sold on eBay are over - now you are stuck with potentially bad policy regardless where the item was sold."

Just wondered if people that still sell over there thought it would affect them, or if they had just opened a second paypal account, or if they were going to stop offering it as a payment option?

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Originally Posted by hotandvintage

From auctionbytes

PayPal spent the week reminding sellers and off-eBay merchants about its new policy regarding buyer claims through an email campaign. eBay also reminded sellers that Buyer Protection cases would count as part of their performance standards beginning this month. Neither policy has been greeted favorably by marketplace sellers or online merchants - said one reader, "the days where PayPal was good for your site / bad if you sold on eBay are over - now you are stuck with potentially bad policy regardless where the item was sold."

Just wondered if people that still sell over there thought it would affect them, or if they had just opened a second paypal account, or if they were going to stop offering it as a payment option?

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Not sure why you are worried how it will affect eBay sellers. Shouldn't you be more worried how it will affect sellers on here

PayPal was also busy this month, sending emails to merchants and services that offer PayPal on their own websites. The letter stated in part, "As of 11/01/10, your customers who pay with PayPal are protected for items they receive that are "significantly not as described". This means that you may be liable for the cost including the original shipping charges should they file a claim."

We are both in the UK so it is already here for us, as we were the test subjects, to see this makes enough mess before dumping it on everyone. This is for those in the US, as it starts for them november first.

But you are right it could be messy on here also, but it will hurt those that still sell on both a lot more if they use the same paypal for both accounts. And a lot of sellers on here do.

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PayPal was also busy this month, sending emails to merchants and services that offer PayPal on their own websites. The letter stated in part, "As of 11/01/10, your customers who pay with PayPal are protected for items they receive that are "significantly not as described". This means that you may be liable for the cost including the original shipping charges should they file a claim.

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I'm sorry but I fail to see any significant problems with this new policy.
Am I missing something?
I have been using pay pal on our web site for over 2 years and after using their shopping cart, and the rest of their services I find
an exceptional value in their offerings.
I describe my items as they are, if any of my customers have a problem with an item they purchase from us
it will be corrected unconditionally...
In other words my customers don't need Pay Pal's offer of satisfaction

Yes, you are missing something

This is a new avenue for scamming buyers to get your items free by simply claiming they are 'not as described'

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Originally Posted by jcjigs

I'm sorry but I fail to see any significant problems with this new policy.
Am I missing something?
I have been using pay pal on our web site for over 2 years and after using their shopping cart, and the rest of their services I find
an exceptional value in their offerings.
I describe my items as they are, if any of my customers have a problem with an item they purchase from us
it will be corrected unconditionally...
In other words my customers don't need Pay Pal's offer of satisfaction

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Have you ever been caught in one of the scams that are rampant at the moment on PayPal?

I haven't either, but my friend has now had her account frozen because a lady says she never recieved her goods. Doesn't matter that it was free shipping--and that the post office tracking says that it was delivered--that the lady had signed for it.
In checking out the ladies feeback she had filed at least 5 of those claims in the last 6 months. That didn't seem to matter either.

PayPal works great untillllllllllllllll.

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Originally Posted by terry5732

Yes, you are missing something

This is a new avenue for scamming buyers to get your items free by simply claiming they are 'not as described'

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Buyer will have to return item to seller with tracking, just as it is over there, to prove 'not as described'. Nothing has changed except paypal is expanding their policies to all venues that sellers use.

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Originally Posted by dardonboi

Have you ever been caught in one of the scams that are rampant at the moment on PayPal?

I haven't either, but my friend has now had her account frozen because a lady says she never recieved her goods. Doesn't matter that it was free shipping--and that the post office tracking says that it was delivered--that the lady had signed for it.
In checking out the ladies feeback she had filed at least 5 of those claims in the last 6 months. That didn't seem to matter either.

PayPal works great untillllllllllllllll.

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If package had tracking, your friend needs to contact paypal with tracking info. I always put my tracking info on paypal's transaction page. Makes things so much easier when there is a dispute that package was not delivered.

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Originally Posted by florida33549

Buyer will have to return item to seller with tracking, just as it is over there, to prove 'not as described'. Nothing has changed except paypal is expanding their policies to all venues that sellers use.

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If you didn't get your item (?????) how do you return it?

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Originally Posted by dardonboi

If you didn't get your item (?????) how do you return it?

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This is discussing an item bought that has something wrong with it, or different from described/pictured. You must return it to seller and then they must refund your money. This has been around a while I think.

Other problems could include not getting your item, in that case you can't return it for a refund but must file for nonreceipt.

For those worried about the kind of situation that fleebay and PP had set up, linking your fleebay feedback on the site to your PP account i.e. causing holds on funds based on the feedback etc., remember that other sites do NOT allow fleebay/PP to access their sites, look around, have access to data etc. That would be crazy. What owner would allow that? They only have certain parameters to operate in and must stay within those. i.e. can't check out your ebid feedback, decide it is not high enough, and then put a hold on your PP account.

Remember we talked about this and other issues a while back when fleebay had some new rules about holds on funds in new or accounts on fleebay that are not used for a while. If a seller left for a year and then went back there, they might hold your PP funds as you are considered a high risk seller. So best to have a separate account for your website/ebid. if you don't plan to return there, it makes no difference. But who knows, fleebay rule #3999 or whatever might have changed already!!

Well...for every item which is worth much more money just use always ''tracking number'' and you have a perfect answer for Pay Pal Buyers and he or she can't say I am not receive item and very small amount of packages is lost in the mail...for not described he or she need first to return item to you...for small value items which is cost couple cents he or she is not going to complain either way because cost for shipping return is way over how much item worth...I use Pay Pal for 10 years I not have any problem....

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Originally Posted by DZAMBO

Well...for every item which is worth much more money just use always ''tracking number'' and you have a perfect answer for Pay Pal Buyers and he or she can't say I am not receive item and very small amount of packages is lost in the mail...for not described he or she need first to return item to you...for small value items which is cost couple cents he or she is not going to complain either way because cost for shipping return is way over how much item worth...I use Pay Pal for 10 years I not have any problem....

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Exactly. And if a buyer says that did not receive the $5 item and opens a PP case against me, and I have no tracking number/confirmation/insurance, all I do to close the claim is refund the buyer's money. Case closed. People forget about this option.

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For those worried about the kind of situation that fleebay and PP had set up, linking your fleebay feedback on the site to your PP account i.e. causing holds on funds based on the feedback etc., remember that other sites do NOT allow fleebay/PP to access their sites, look around, have access to data etc. That would be crazy. What owner would allow that? They only have certain parameters to operate in and must stay within those. i.e. can't check out your ebid feedback, decide it is not high enough, and then put a hold on your PP account.

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It is not a just case of paypal holding funds, those sellers that sell on both venues and use the same paypal will have problems. If buyer buys item on here then claims back through sellers paypal. That paypal claim will be a strike on the sellers ebatty account.
For a lot of small sellers four of those strikes and their ebatty account is closed, and then paypal holds their money.

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Originally Posted by dardonboi

If you didn't get your item (?????) how do you return it?

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If the package had tracking, the post office has verified delivery. Simple.

All PayPal generated shipping labels include a USPS tracking number. The only delivery method that they DO NOT use tracking is on First Class International packages.

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Originally Posted by andyabby

If the package had tracking, the post office has verified delivery. Simple.

All PayPal generated shipping labels include a USPS tracking number. The only delivery method that they DO NOT use tracking is on First Class International packages.

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True. Sellers are responsible for proving they had package delivered. Too many sellers put things in their descriptions like: insurance...your option. Well, that's just not true. It's the seller's responsiblity to get item to buyer and be able to prove it. If it's a breakable, the seller should insure it...not for buyers protection...but for seller's protection.

Of course, if you only accept money orders or checks or cash, then I guess you could get away with no tracking or insurance but if you accept paypal or any other form of electronic payment, you better be able to prove safe delivery. Or be prepared to refund money to buyer if they claim non-delivery. If they claim not-as-described, then buyer will be required to return item to you with some sort of delivery confirmation before they will be refunded their payment to you.

UPS has tracking built in, U.S.P.S. has tracking for a fee. I never ship unless I am able to determine package was delivered.
Paid for by the buyer
If signature is necessary so be it...If by some chance I run into a buyer with ill intentions I am able to deal with that also.
I am not running on a shoe string, if some one wants our offerings they deal with us on our terms.
Insurance..I insure what we ship, I never believed insurance should be the buyers responsibility.

jcjigs

I insure what we ship, I never believed insurance should be the buyers responsibility.

And you do not add that into either the price or the shipping? In most cases whether up front or not the buyer pays for shipping and insurance. There is no such thing as free shipping.

HOTANDVINTAGE
100% in agreement with you

So that means you force the buyer to pay for it whether they want it or not

Did they not say they wanted it when they opted for a payment method like paypal, so you can't say they are forced, as they could have always opted for another payment method.

But most will not, as they understand the risk.

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Originally Posted by hotandvintage

It is not a just case of paypal holding funds, those sellers that sell on both venues and use the same paypal will have problems. If buyer buys item on here then claims back through sellers paypal. That paypal claim will be a strike on the sellers ebatty account.
For a lot of small sellers four of those strikes and their ebatty account is closed, and then paypal holds their money.

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I see your point. Doing anything wrong on any site can cause a shared PP acount to be closed. That of course affects the fleebay account because PP is necessary to sell there. Not a good idea to use one PP account for everything?

I wonder why so many feebay sellers put with Paypal only.

Now Paypal are going to ry to wreck other sites business.

I have not had any problems with them yet. but I don't like what I hear about them.

Also don't forget that some items are not worth insuring or tracking for. Us online sellers already have to cope with rising postage, adding those extra costs just puts buyers off imho.

Well...I use always Pay Pal because of one main things most of Buyers in USA use Pay Pal to pay and because many are more secure if something goes wrong is easy to pul back your money...for the shipping still on Ebid I have one of lowest shipping Domestic and International for my any item...you buy one low shipping Domestic or International...you buy two or more in same day no more charge for the shipping for Domestic and International...raising cost of postage in USA well yep...yep...buy I going to offer same deal after any rising...so where is the Buyers why wait...?
DELTA how is your weather...? Nashville still too cold around 75 day to day....
''BABE'' how is your Business...? for me I going to list more and more and more and more and more and....huh....

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Originally Posted by deltadelta48

So best to have a separate account for your website/ebid. if you don't plan to return there, it makes no difference. But who knows, fleebay rule #3999 or whatever might have changed already!!

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Originally Posted by deltadelta48

I see your point. Doing anything wrong on any site can cause a shared PP acount to be closed. That of course affects the fleebay account because PP is necessary to sell there. Not a good idea to use one PP account for everything

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It is a bad idea to suggest people use two accounts as (1) You are not allowed to have two Business/Premier accounts and (2) you cannot use a Personal account for business or online selling. If PayPal catch you doing either of these they can close ALL your accounts

From PayPal's help pages :-
You can have one Personal account and one Premier or Business account. However, each account must contain a unique email address and unique financial details.

With a Personal account, you can make payments on retail websites or to send and receive personal payments from friends and family.

From PayPal's t&c :-
You may only hold one Personal Account and either one Premier or one Business Account.

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Originally Posted by Juliebabe25

I wonder why so many feebay sellers put with Paypal only.

Now Paypal are going to ry to wreck other sites business.

I have not had any problems with them yet. but I don't like what I hear about them.

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It is not in PayPal's own interests to wreck peoples businesses.

Although the number of people having problems with them seem large, they are only a very small percentage of the 228 million accounts held. Remember you only hear the complaints side of the story and it may sound very different if you also heard PayPals side.

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Originally Posted by TonyBridger

It is not in PayPal's own interests to wreck peoples businesses.

Although the number of people having problems with them seem large, they are only a very small percentage of the 228 million accounts held. Remember you only hear the complaints side of the story and it may sound very different if you also heard PayPals side.

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Good Points Tony,

These complainers always say that Paypal never told them why they were disabled etc etc, or perhaps they were told why and do not want to reveal it.

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Originally Posted by Juliebabe25

Good Points Tony,

These complainers always say that Paypal never told them why they were disabled etc etc, or perhaps they were told why and do not want to reveal it.

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Originally Posted by TonyBridger

It is not in PayPal's own interests to wreck peoples businesses.

Although the number of people having problems with them seem large, they are only a very small percentage of the 228 million accounts held. Remember you only hear the complaints side of the story and it may sound very different if you also heard PayPals side.

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Attachment 19711 ... I've used Payal for numerous purchases and payments for several years now and have never had any issues with them. If you follow the rules, no matter where or what you participate in, then you should have no problems with any reputable provider of services.

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Originally Posted by DZAMBO

Well...I use always Pay Pal because of one main things most of Buyers in USA use Pay Pal to pay and because many are more secure if something goes wrong is easy to pul back your money...for the shipping still on Ebid I have one of lowest shipping Domestic and International for my any item...you buy one low shipping Domestic or International...you buy two or more in same day no more charge for the shipping for Domestic and International...raising cost of postage in USA well yep...yep...buy I going to offer same deal after any rising...so where is the Buyers why wait...?
DELTA how is your weather...? Nashville still too cold around 75 day to day....
''BABE'' how is your Business...? for me I going to list more and more and more and more and more and....huh....

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Oh it took a turn for the worss. We had a terrific storm last week, 50 mile per hour winds, and now it is about 40 to 50F with night in the 30s. Typical for Wisconsin in November.

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Originally Posted by deltadelta48

I see your point. Doing anything wrong on any site can cause a shared PP acount to be closed. That of course affects the fleebay account because PP is necessary to sell there. Not a good idea to use one PP account for everything?

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cases filed by buyers through the eBay and PayPal Buyer Protection programs will be considered along with DSRs in evaluating seller performance,

It does not mention where the item was sold only if it were through paypal buyer protection.

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Originally Posted by TreasureLoft

Attachment 19711 ... I've used Payal for numerous purchases and payments for several years now and have never had any issues with them. If you follow the rules, no matter where or what you participate in, then you should have no problems with any reputable provider of services.

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Most of the sellers I know that got stung believed the same as you, that as long as they followed the rules then they were safe.

But the paypal system is so messed up that lets say you got a bargain deal from a supplier or found a selection of new items to sell, then that would be enough to set off the alarm bells for paypal.

Now the fact they want to know why is not a problem, it is the fact that they have locked your account while they look into it. You are unable to be paid by your buyers or pay your suppliers or staff in some cases. Out here that would not be a problem, but if you are on ebad then you can end up with a lot of angry buyers who are unable to pay, even though the fact they followed the ebad system it shows that they tried and you can be stung for item not received and any feedback that is giving.

It is also the fact that any regulations do not apply as you are now in the hands of an underpaid paypal employee that can do what ever they want, and you have no appeal, as your responses to them are your appeal. You are already considered guilty just because you had a chance to build on your business.

There are thousands of ways you can end up on the wrong end of a paypal decision when you follow the paypal rules


There is one promising thing for all those that have had enough with ebad and are focusing all efforts on here and other none ebad venues, if you look at when this was announced in the UK

PayPal UK’s MD, Carl Scheible, says “over half of all PayPal payments by value are now made on non-eBay websites,

never had anything on any of my 3 sites returned.had things go missing or are the buyers trying to claim 2 identical items,more likely.

cheers another Tony:)

I have had problems with buyers claiming items not received via Paypal. I,m convinced that the paypal system like ebays is biased totally in favout of the buyer.I;d far rather buyers use another payment system that I have confidence in, it galls me that some pimply kid who doesn't know me or anything about me can decide I'm telling porkies on the evidence of someone else who he knows nothing about either but accepts everything they say because its 'policy'.
I've been in business a lot of years,a league table of problem makers would start off with ebay and paypal right at the top and ebid right at the bottom.Another list of crummy service would end up exactly the same.