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Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Attachment 42976
.............for those of varying faiths to objectively and subjectively discuss why they hold the beliefs or lack of beliefs that they do? Can this be done without arguing, insults, or attacks on others belief systems?
I will go first, it is only fair since I asked.
I am a Christian.
Why? I came to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ by accepting Him as my LORD and Savior.
How? By confessing with my mouth that I was a sinner. By believing in my heart that Jesus died on the cross to save me a sinner. By repenting (turning away) from my sins. By asking Jesus Christ to come into my life as my LORD and Savior.
(See Romans 10:8-10, 13-15)
What? What in the world could have made me want to do that? It was a long, gentle process. First, an unexplainable attraction to biblical text. Could not really say I believed what I was reading, but it fascinated me. Next (many years later) I witnessed miraculous healings. I was not "a believer", but I was blown away by what I saw.
So one day I called a prayer counselor for prayer for a very sick child. The counselor perceived that I was not a Christian. They invited me to pray "the sinner's prayer for forgiveness, and to accept Jesus Christ as my Savior." So I did, because there was a very sick child who needed a healing.
The counselor told me that they perceived that only God Himself would be able to reach me. So they prayed a different prayer, that the prayer I had prayed be sealed, and asking God to reveal Himself to me over the next week. The child was dramatically healed the very same day. Each day for the entire week, I experienced God's presence in tangible ways. I have never since questioned His existence after.
I never debate with others concerning the existence of God, because I realize that no person could have convinced me of God's existence or that I was in need of a savior. Only God Himself was able to do that.
Responder's
Christians - 9
Pagans - 1
Atheists - 6
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
I probably come under the heading of "non practicing Christian"
In other words I don't feel the need to go to church........but I have faith.
I'm not quite sure what or who that faith is in, but a greater entity than we mere mortals.
Saying that, on one occasion where a life was teetering on the very edge of existence......I was drawn to the hospital chapel......why I don't know........but I prayed, much along the lines of either take him quickly without pain, or bring him back to me. My Dad survived.
On another occasion, I was put in the position (in a court) of either taking in three very young children or having them lost forever through adoption. On my way home I found myself walking into our Parish Church and by chance the Vicar (and his children) were there. We prayed together that I would make the right decision. The next day I went back into the courtroom......and brought the children home. I'm pleased to say that they have since been returned to their Mum (in better circumstances), so it was meant to be.
I have an open mind about faith / religion / beliefs etc. each to their own.
Yvonne x
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Christians like all other faiths or those who claim "no faith" come in many shapes and sizes. From new born babies to fully mature in practicing their faith. Then it is as if they are on a sliding scale at times, going forward in growth (weight), then sliding back, then equalizing forward again.
I do not currently attend a church, as I travel frequently. Also seeking God's guidance on where I belong, or where I'm suppose to be. I do not feel a need to "just be in church" or "just go to church"; I do however feel a strong need to be where (a church) I'm suppose to be. I was always very active in church, and I miss that now. An issue since returning to the North East segment of the USA, from the Mid-West.
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I was brought up as a Christian (Church of Scotland) and attended church regularly but bigotry in the west of Scotland pulled me away. I looked at many faiths and for 25 years was a pagan following no particular path. But I do not believe in a god (or goddess), only in time and nature. I also did not believe in an afterlife so I came to recognise I was actually a humanist.
I still follow the wheel of the year and celebrate the quarters and cross quarters. I brought my 4 children up as pagans but only one of them still is.
I believe all folks should be free to practise whatever faith they find comfort in or no faith if that is their choice as long as it harms no-one else
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
All seem to be in agreement so far that each person should be free to follow the faith, and or belief that they choose to follow.
The differences seem to revolve around "who" or "what" is God/a god/a goddess/or a belief set. In some ways I consider "a belief set" to be the organizing or defining factor for all faiths, denominations, or paths. Would consider "a belief set" to also pertain to those who describe themselves as agnostics or atheist.
Could "a belief set" be considered "a religion"? Religion is defined by Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition as 1) the service and worship of God or the supernatural; 2) a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices; 3) a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
For example, atheism is defined by Merriam Webster's as 1) a disbelief in the existence of deity; 2) the doctrine that there is no deity. They define atheist as one who denies the existence of God. In other words, an atheist has a belief set, or a personal set of beliefs, that deny the existence of God or deity. A belief set that could be considered a religion by definition.
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I consider myself to have no relegion.
I was born Christian (Church of England), but from a very early age, I did not go to church. I do not believe that there is a God or an afterlife, and I do not follow any other type of calling, so I suppose that makes me an atheist, but on the other hand I do not recognise that title either.
So I really do not know under what status I would be classified.
I also firmly believe that everyone has the right to follow whatever path they choose, free of ridicule or bigotory, and no one has the right to tell them otherwise.
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I am an atheist. As far as I am concerned there is no god of any form. God is an invention of man from when we did not understand the world, now that we do understand religion is irrelevant. As for miracles, yes they do happen, but they are not some form of divine intervention they are more likely to be extreme good fortune. if any divine intervention was to take place then devoutly religious people would not die in the same proportion in car crashes, plane crashes, natural disasters etc. A friend summed it up well when he told me about an experience he had on holiday when somebody was talking about the wonder of God and how he stopped the waters of the Boxing Day Tsunami just yards from a church, a true miracle. My friend pointed out that if he could stop the waters then why did a quarter of a million people die and thousands of other churches get destroyed. He did not get an answer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kreativebargains
As for miracles, yes they do happen, but they are not some form of divine intervention they are more likely to be extreme good fortune. if any divine intervention was to take place then devoutly religious people would not die in the same proportion in car crashes, plane crashes, natural disasters etc. A friend summed it up well when he told me about an experience he had on holiday when somebody was talking about the wonder of God and how he stopped the waters of the Boxing Day Tsunami just yards from a church, a true miracle. My friend pointed out that if he could stop the waters then why did a quarter of a million people die and thousands of other churches get destroyed. He did not get an answer.
Bad things happen to very good people everyday. My personal set includes the belief that there are two diabolically opposed forces that have different purposes for mankind. The purpose of God is to bring life in its fullness to mankind. The purpose of the evil one is "to steal, kill, and destroy" (John 10:10)
I know you do not believe in God, and that is your right. I have a right to believe in God, and to adhere to a personal belief set.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
burgyeb
Bad things happen to very good people everyday. My personal set includes the belief that there are two diabolically opposed forces that have different purposes for mankind. The purpose of God is to bring life in its fullness to mankind. The purpose of the evil one is "to steal, kill, and destroy" (John 10:10)
I know you do not believe in God, and that is your right. I have a right to believe in God, and to adhere to a personal belief set.
I have no problem with people believing in God. I would say that I have Christian values, but you do not have to believe in some entity to think that some things are wrong. It is man who wrote the bible so in effect Christian values are actually the values of mankind. I read recently that in most western countries that religion is dying out, even in Italy and Ireland people do not follow the church as much. There will always be religion, but then again there are people who go to Stonehenge for the Summer Solstice.
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I am a Christian and my beliefs are as in the Nicene Creed and the Apostle's Creed.
We should all be able to discuss beliefs without descending into bigotry or insults, etc.
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I would come into the category of
Quote:
WARNING: Going to church may damage your Christianity
I have research degrees in both anthropology and theology. Also I worked for a while in a prison as a manager of the World Faiths department, overseeing the work of Imams, Pastors, Fathers, Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist ministers. So, OK, I come at this from a particular point of view.
I once spent a week in a Buddhist monastery trying to learn meditation. I didn't work well for me, but what the Buddhist Monk and I agreed on was that pilgrims coming to the temple with all the pressure to give gold leaf to put on the Buddha was just as crippling for spirituality as Christians having to raise money to repair the Church roof.
There is research about levels of christian maturity I worked on years ago, which looks at the factors which make christians grow in their christianity. Going to Eucharist every week is good because it helps christians to grow to level 3 quickly. The problem is, repeated exposure keeps christians there, they do not readily move through to level 5 in which they have the resources to make the whole of their lives christian. If you find this difficult to believe, reflect on the observation that established churches are rarely christian employers in treating their employees christianly.
I don't go to Eucharist every week. I have been enough already.
Preaching is not so good for your christianity or islam either. Congregations don't notice when their pastor or imam goes beyond what the faith is actually about and can slide into various fundamentalisms. At best congregations absorb the benign but limited world view of their minister. Methodists and others with rotating preachers have an advantage of learning to evaluate their preachers.
Yes, I am Christian, and my faith informs how I do things.
And the headline grabbing quote above says, may. A tendency, not an inevitability
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vonz
I probably come under the heading of "non practicing Christian"
In other words I don't feel the need to go to church........but I have faith.
I'm not quite sure what or who that faith is in, but a greater entity than we mere mortals.
Saying that, on one occasion where a life was teetering on the very edge of existence......I was drawn to the hospital chapel......why I don't know........but I prayed, much along the lines of either take him quickly without pain, or bring him back to me. My Dad survived.
On another occasion, I was put in the position (in a court) of either taking in three very young children or having them lost forever through adoption. On my way home I found myself walking into our Parish Church and by chance the Vicar (and his children) were there. We prayed together that I would make the right decision. The next day I went back into the courtroom......and brought the children home. I'm pleased to say that they have since been returned to their Mum (in better circumstances), so it was meant to be.
I have an open mind about faith / religion / beliefs etc. each to their own.
Yvonne x
You sound exactly like me. I was raised Catholic but haven't been to church in 30 years, as I have problems with a church that doesn't recognize and encourage the equality and full participation of women and gays, also I'm pro BC which many mainstream Catholics abhor. I call myself spiritual, as I believe very strongly in God and Jesus but don't feel I need an intermediary or church to communicate with Him.
That said, I'm very open minded, some of my friends are Wiccans, some are Christians, (bf is Baptist though he hasn't been to church in years either), some are Jews and some are agnostics or atheists; IMHO it's like John Lennon said, (albeit in a different context), "whatever gets you through the night"... :)
Best wishes for many sales to all,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kreativebargains
I have no problem with people believing in God. I would say that I have Christian values, but you do not have to believe in some entity to think that some things are wrong. It is man who wrote the bible so in effect Christian values are actually the values of mankind.
Agree. :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
suesjools
You sound exactly like me. I was raised Catholic but haven't been to church in 30 years, as I have problems with a church that doesn't recognize and encourage the equality and full participation of women and gays, also I'm pro BC which many mainstream Catholics abhor. I call myself spiritual, as I believe very strongly in God and Jesus but don't feel I need an intermediary or church to communicate with Him.
That said, I'm very open minded, some of my friends are Wiccans, some are Christians, (bf is Baptist though he hasn't been to church in years either), some are Jews and some are agnostics or atheists; IMHO it's like John Lennon said, (albeit in a different context), "whatever gets you through the night"... :)
Best wishes for many sales to all,
Have friends, family, and associates who cover a wide spectrum of beliefs. I have no problem accepting different faiths, belief systems, or cultures. I agree, each to his own; but each should be willing to extend the same to others.
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I'm Christian. With that said, I will stay away from this thread as I tend to be rather outspoken on subjects such as this and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings on the matter...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
burgyeb
Have friends, family, and associates who cover a wide spectrum of beliefs. I have no problem accepting different faiths, belief systems, or cultures. I agree, each to his own; but each should be willing to extend the same to others.
Ditto this. IMHO the world would be a much better place if we could all live and let live. :)
Best wishes for many sales to all,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
iwiw60
I'm Christian. With that said, I will stay away from this thread as I tend to be rather outspoken on subjects such as this and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings on the matter...
Awwww.............pez come back. Just behave.
Was poking about on levels of faith, makes for pretty interesting reading. Fascinating how people varied in their presentation of the topic. Some focused on 3, 5, 7, 13; actually they were saying pretty much the same thing. Cross referencing their points was fun.
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As humans, I think we are spiritual beings and consequently need to express that spirituality in some way. The most common way is through a religion, but it may also be expressed through creativity. We all believe in the existence of good and evil. I believe that the good in the world comes from God (who many don't believe in) and the evil in the world comes from satan (who many more don't believe in). You could ask why a God who purports to be good allows evil things to happen. My answer is that I believe God has given people freedom of choice, and you are free to choose a good way or a bad way, and your choice impacts on yourself and those around you.
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lakeleilani
As humans, I think we are spiritual beings and consequently need to express that spirituality in some way. The most common way is through a religion, but it may also be expressed through creativity. We all believe in the existence of good and evil. I believe that the good in the world comes from God (who many don't believe in) and the evil in the world comes from satan (who many more don't believe in). You could ask why a God who purports to be good allows evil things to happen. My answer is that I believe God has given people freedom of choice, and you are free to choose a good way or a bad way, and your choice impacts on yourself and those around you.
So true. I also came to this conclusion about freedom of choice after many years (OK decades) of wondering and badgering my elders for answers. A good priest friend brought me to this conclusion, for which I was (and am) quite grateful. :)
Best wishes for many sales to all,
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lakeleilani
As humans, I think we are spiritual beings and consequently need to express that spirituality in some way. The most common way is through a religion, but it may also be expressed through creativity. We all believe in the existence of good and evil. I believe that the good in the world comes from God (who many don't believe in) and the evil in the world comes from satan (who many more don't believe in). You could ask why a God who purports to be good allows evil things to happen. My answer is that I believe God has given people freedom of choice, and you are free to choose a good way or a bad way, and your choice impacts on yourself and those around you.
This pretty much sums up my views as well.
I attended a university, and the Dean of my school had developed a theory on the whole person. An individual was defined as "a spiritual being who interacts with internal and external environments, in a biopsychosocial manner, as they quest for wholeness." The theory was accepted as a full theory of nursing in a Swedish Journal.
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I am a Christian and like iwiw, I learned a long time ago to not be too outspoken as that is not the way to favorably impress others.
One verse that always comes to mind when there is a discussion like this is the last portion of Philippians 2:12---"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
I have lived long enough to see many miracles so can't be a doubter.
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I like the way the NIV Bible states Philippians 2:12,.... "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed. ....continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." Growing and developing in one's faith is an active process, to be continued until the finish. The fear and trembling are referring to reverencing God, and holding firm to his good purpose. The Apostle Paul is addressing a mature group of believers in his opening remarks to the believers of Philippi. [Philippians 1:3-6] Here Paul is speaking of the completion of the good work started in them by God.
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed......work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." [Philippians 2:12 KJV] Nice there also.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kreativebargains
I am an atheist. As far as I am concerned there is no god of any form. God is an invention of man from when we did not understand the world, now that we do understand religion is irrelevant. As for miracles, yes they do happen, but they are not some form of divine intervention they are more likely to be extreme good fortune. if any divine intervention was to take place then devoutly religious people would not die in the same proportion in car crashes, plane crashes, natural disasters etc. A friend summed it up well when he told me about an experience he had on holiday when somebody was talking about the wonder of God and how he stopped the waters of the Boxing Day Tsunami just yards from a church, a true miracle. My friend pointed out that if he could stop the waters then why did a quarter of a million people die and thousands of other churches get destroyed. He did not get an answer.
I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.
The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.
It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.
If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.
In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.
And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.
And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.
And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.
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[QUOTE=burgyeb;1575425]Attachment 42976
.............for those of varying faiths to objectively and subjectively discuss why they hold the beliefs or lack of beliefs that they do? Can this be done without arguing, insults, or attacks on others belief systems?
Apparently not seems to be the answer.
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
squern
I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.
The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.
It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.
If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.
In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.
And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.
And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.
And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.
My late father was a lapsed catholic and my mum is protestant (i dont believe in religion and was not forced to). My mother regularly tells me about their wedding day when my fathers side of the family except his parents refused to attend the wedding because my mother was a protestant!
A friend of mine who is a shia muslim more or less forced her daughter to become a muslim (more or less brainwashing her). We have had many heated discussions about religion and basically she admits she has been brainwashed!
I dont believe religion should be taught in schools it does no good at all for community relations it only divides community's (i saw this at my daughters school). I'm sure there are better ways of living a good life and bringing different peoples of the world together than religion. When your on the outside looking in it is quite frightening!
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[QUOTE=victorfrank;1576020]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
burgyeb
Attachment 42976
.............for those of varying faiths to objectively and subjectively discuss why they hold the beliefs or lack of beliefs that they do? Can this be done without arguing, insults, or attacks on others belief systems?
Apparently not seems to be the answer.
AMEN!
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I don't see any insults or attacks.
I see debate and exchange of views and experiences.
Unless you see questioning the "official line" as an attack?
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
squern
I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.
The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.
It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.
If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.
In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.
And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.
And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.
And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.
An excellent post which articulates my own feelings and lack of belief.
I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I am now a committed anti-theist.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Knit_Wits_Vintage
An excellent post which articulates my own feelings and lack of belief.
I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I am now a committed anti-theist.
Me too
http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c116811/scarlet_A.png
The link that attaches to this image is on my About Me page
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
squern
I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.
The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.
It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.
If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.
In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.
And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.
And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.
And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.
Totally agree.
My other half is religious (Seventh Day Adventist). I pick her and the kids up every week and sometimes hear some of the service. Every week I shake my head in disbelief that they believe every word. But each to their own.
As for your comment 'And there's supposed to be a God behind all this?' the answer to everything that is wrong is always 'yes. but there's a devil as well'. So at least as far as Seventh Day Adventists are concerned all that is good that happens in the world is the work of god and all that is bad is the work of the devil.
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Quote:
My other half is religious (Seventh Day Adventist). I pick her and the kids up every week and sometimes hear some of the service. Every week I shake my head in disbelief that they believe every word. But each to their own.
Obviously a partnership built on tolerance, Kreative. A lesson for all religious zealots.
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People will always have various beliefs or non-beliefs. Time will tell whether any of those beliefs or non-beliefs are correct, although if when we die we fade away into nothingness, we will never know anyway. On the other hand, if when we die our soul lives on in an afterlife (or until we reach Nirvana, as the Hindus believe) then we will know.
Leaving aside the way organised religion can be used as a form of control, it generally acts as a guideline for how we live our lives. In Britain, Christian elements still define our behaviour - such as not committing murder etc. It is usually extremists (of all faiths, Christian included) who give their religion a bad name and cause people to think that religion is the cause of wars and terrorist attacks. If people quietly practised their faith and got on with their lives, interacting with others in a peaceable fashion, then people wouldn't be so against religion. When people hear about acts of terrorism, murder, child abuse, and enforced idealisms all done under the protective umbrella of a religion, no wonder so many people in modern times want nothing to do with religion.
Science has explained so much, although not everything, and I think we should be careful of thinking that we know it all. If God exists, he still exists whether people believe in him or not. Time will tell... or not.
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lakeleilani
People will always have various beliefs or non-beliefs. Time will tell whether any of those beliefs or non-beliefs are correct, although if when we die we fade away into nothingness, we will never know anyway. On the other hand, if when we die our soul lives on in an afterlife (or until we reach Nirvana, as the Hindus believe) then we will know.
Leaving aside the way organised religion can be used as a form of control, it generally acts as a guideline for how we live our lives. In Britain, Christian elements still define our behaviour - such as not committing murder etc. It is usually extremists (of all faiths, Christian included) who give their religion a bad name and cause people to think that religion is the cause of wars and terrorist attacks. If people quietly practised their faith and got on with their lives, interacting with others in a peaceable fashion, then people wouldn't be so against religion. When people hear about acts of terrorism, murder, child abuse, and enforced idealisms all done under the protective umbrella of a religion, no wonder so many people in modern times want nothing to do with religion.
Science has explained so much, although not everything, and I think we should be careful of thinking that we know it all. If God exists, he still exists whether people believe in him or not. Time will tell... or not.
Yes, if only they would.
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
My problem with the Bible and religion is not that religion causes war, though it has been an excuse for many wars. It is man that causes wars and they would have found another excuse without religion. No, my problem is that it is a story with no basis in truth. God created the world, well no he did not, God created man, that will be another no, he flooded the world and an ark saved a few animals and even better created rainbows to show he would not do it again. There are many more. Then you have that he leaves man to his own devices, unless he is flooding the world, destroying cities, turning people into pillars of salt, creating plagues. It is an interesting book, nothing more. But then so is The Lord of the Rings yet nobody gets down on their knees to that every week. Religious people have done plenty they can be proud of over the years, and plenty that they should be ashamed of, but others have done so without religion. It is simply that the world is populated with good people and some not so good, religion is increasingly irrelevant, it served a purpose for many years, even if that purpose was keeping the peasants under control, nowadays though it is not needed for this so will gradually fade.
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lakeleilani
People will always have various beliefs or non-beliefs. Time will tell whether any of those beliefs or non-beliefs are correct, although if when we die we fade away into nothingness, we will never know anyway. On the other hand, if when we die our soul lives on in an afterlife (or until we reach Nirvana, as the Hindus believe) then we will know.
Leaving aside the way organised religion can be used as a form of control, it generally acts as a guideline for how we live our lives. In Britain, Christian elements still define our behaviour - such as not committing murder etc. It is usually extremists (of all faiths, Christian included) who give their religion a bad name and cause people to think that religion is the cause of wars and terrorist attacks. If people quietly practised their faith and got on with their lives, interacting with others in a peaceable fashion, then people wouldn't be so against religion. When people hear about acts of terrorism, murder, child abuse, and enforced idealisms all done under the protective umbrella of a religion, no wonder so many people in modern times want nothing to do with religion.
Science has explained so much, although not everything, and I think we should be careful of thinking that we know it all. If God exists, he still exists whether people believe in him or not. Time will tell... or not.
Very well put!
God is blamed for a lot of things he did not do and did not approve of.
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As for 'does God exist'. If something exists it can be proven, it is impossible to prove that something does not exist.
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Re: Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........
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Originally Posted by
kreativebargains
As for 'does God exist'. If something exists it can be proven, it is impossible to prove that something does not exist.
Some church groups have a very narrow and literal interpretation of the Bible, which not all Christians would agree with. I can't prove to you that God exists, but I believe God has proven to me that he exists. I can tell you why I believe that, but I can't prove it, and I don't expect others to believe it. It is all down to personal faith.
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Originally Posted by
youmeus
Very well put!
God is blamed for a lot of things he did not do and did not approve of.
If God created man then it is a design fault and anything man does is entirely down to him.
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Originally Posted by
kreativebargains
If God created man then it is a design fault and anything man does is entirely down to him.
LOL. I've often wondered why he bothered!
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Originally Posted by
burgyeb
Attachment 42976
.............for those of varying faiths to objectively and subjectively discuss why they hold the beliefs or lack of beliefs that they do? Can this be done without arguing, insults, or attacks on others belief systems?
I hope so.
I am a Christian.
I had went to bed one night and turned my TV on. There was a couple singing and though I don't remember what song they sang I enjoyed listening so much I didn't change the channel, then the man that was singing started preaching about the unpardonable sin. Usually I would have changed the channel as though I had respect for God, I didn't love Him and I was not interested in Him. I hadn't been in church for 33 years and I didn't even have or want a Bible in my home for most of those years.
After the preacher finished, God went to work on me and I began to listen. He wanted me to repent and accept Him as my Savior. I said I wanted to wait and I would go to church Sunday and then I would -- after all I wasn't interested in God but I didn't want to go to hell. God let me know that I would never have another chance. I really didn't love God but I did believe in Him and I really did believe in hell and an eternal after life and I didn't want to go to hell. I repented of my sins that night asking God to forgive me and when I got through I not only respected and believed in God but I really loved Him. Something was really different and it was something that I think has to be felt because I still can't explain it. I still don't know what God meant by me never having another chance --- I have wondered if He meant He would never give me the invitation again or something would happen that would end my life taking away the opportunity.
That was a little over 15 year ago and I still love God more than I have ever loved anyone or anything. I have an unexplainable peace within that I never had before --- even when there are heartaches and trials. I can't explain or expect anyone to understand how I feel unless they have experienced it too.
I too think everyone should be free to choose ---- I am so glad that I was free to and I hope others experience the peace I have.