Very precise search leading to listings not being seen?

Hi,
Will be listing some Gold and Silver charms.

Searched using 9 ct - nothing showing. Searched: 9 ct K 375 - nothing showing. 9 carat K 375 - still nothing.
I had already searched for just 'Gold charms' and selected 'Fine Jewellery', leading to several pages that showed gold-plated chains/pendants (should gold-plated items appear in 'Fine Jewellery')?
In that general sale, some 9ct items did come up.
So searched for 9ct charms only, and did get all the items showing plus additional listings.

It's a bit of a worry that the difference of a space: 9 ct or 9ct, results in not showing in a search - what is the best way to be seen, is their only one specific term that must be used?
I assume that Google will accept all variations, if used?

How many other types of searches does this affect?

No response to my post - any ideas as to how to be seen at all times?

Searched 925 listings yesterday - a couple of 9ct items shown (but they didn't show on my previous 9 carat search). How can this happen, is it entering something wrongly when creating a listing?

I've been hanging back hoping someone who knows something about selling gold would answer your questions, but as no-one has.

I found the following.

Searching on Google Shopping for "9 ct gold charms" with or without " - ebid" tacked onto the end, I found only one item from ebid on the first three pages of results. That one example had "9ct" in the title.

Searching for "9 carat gold charms", I found only one title with the word "carat".

Google seems to like "9ct" as all the results no matter which way I searched, except the one with "carat" were for 9ct, 10ct, 12ct etc.

So if you're mainly interested on your listings being accepted by GS, I'd go with "9ct".

Having said that, when I've had similar situations when listing glass (which of two equally 'correct' sub-cats. should I list in), I've put some in each to see which sells more / quicker.

Hope this helps, but do consider that I've never sold anything in gold categories.

Thanks Elench, it not so much gold/silver (it's a small area to check on) as to how search on here works.

Yesterday I searched '375' and it brought up all sorts, including 3.75 size mentioned in the title. It also brought up a lot more gold jewellery that wasn't showing elsewhere, including a white gold necklace I also have listed that didn't show up in the 9ct/9 ct/9 carat etc.

Am trying to work out how the search function works re title word order and or key words, and whether items in other categories are also missing in some searches - there is little point in my transferring listings from elsewhere, if they are not going to show in searches. I have a 9 ct open locket watch fob listed - searched 'watch fob' and it didn't show (even though it's listed in watches/watch fob section). Searched 'open locket' and it showed along with one other open locket - both should show, why isn't that happening?

On the bay and etsy, sellers are always checking to see if they can be seen or if they are being hidden/capped by the site they are paying to be seen on - I never thought that there was any need to check and see if all listing are showing on eBid.
Is there a guide to the search function and the best keyword/word order and the best way to be seen in searches?

In the Jewelry & Watches category I typed: 9ct gold in the search and got this page:
https://www.ebid.net/us/perl/main.cg...ear_me=&pcode=

Sorry, I misunderstood the question.

When I started looking at GS someone said that they understood that how the google search engine works is probably a closely guarded secret, presumably how ebids engine works is also a secret and for the same reasons. To stop sellers manipulating the results to favour themselves.

So we all try to "optimise" our listings by using what we hope are "strong" key-words, those that are most likely(we hope)to be used by buyers when searching. I think that, for my listings, the strongest words are: Art Deco. Name of manufacturer. Glass and its colour. Item type.

So a typical listing would start with "Art Deco Bagley Blue Glass Vase". Followed by "weaker" words like Name or Number of the design + anything else that's distinctive that a buyer might put in the search box. I would expect to find my vase in results if I search for any of the first six words, individually or in combination and have done so in the past.

I don't understand the ebid search, probably only the designers do? I've asked on the Website Suggestions forum why on the Home Page "Browse x, xxx, xxx items on Ebid" list of categories under "Pottery, Porcelain & Glass" the first two have lists of 3rd level sub-categories but Glass stops at the 2nd level and if some 3rd level sub-cats can be added to show buyers there are such items for sale?

No reply and nothing added but it does make it look like there is no Date Lined glass on ebid at first glance. God only knows what buyers must think when they see negative numbers after the three sub-cats. that are shown.

I also remember seeing other sellers commenting that there is something wrong in the way knitting patterns are shown in craft supplies or hand-made categories (I don't remember exactly why they were not happy). So yes there are some problems in other categories, whether they lead to items missing in search results, only those who sell in those areas can know.

I would guess that all search engines throw-up anomalies and gaps, sometimes just by how sellers use them and how used buyers are to them. (It's why I struggle on obay to get their search to allow me to list a Trinket Bowl as a Collectable (where it will sell), rather than as Tableware (where it won't).

I think someone who has been selling in the jewellery categories for some time and with some success is more likely to be able to help you, based on their experience of how they actually work. Or perhaps, if you're lucky, Gazza might reply with some help. Your questions can really only be answered by experience, rather than my own vague theories. Sorry I can't be more help.

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Originally Posted by JanetB

In the Jewelry & Watches category I typed: 9ct gold in the search and got this page:
https://www.ebid.net/us/perl/main.cg...ear_me=&pcode=

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Hi Janet,
Thanks for that - I've just tried it and got the same as you, which is reassuring that items can be seen.
I also tried the original search on 9ct gold charms, and didn't get the the page of gold-plated items when selecting 'fine jewellery' as I did last time.

But it does seem this search worked because of using '9ct' only - will check out other terms: 9 ct/carat, K and 375. It does look as though listing needs 9ct in title and other terms are more scattered in results.
Thanks for your help.
Marie.

Hi Elench,
Thanks for your help - if there are 'correct' terms that should be used in searches then it would help to be aware of them, when listing.

The other problem is, newcomers to eBid, might not use the exact term when searching and could miss seeing an item for sale (as I did when searching using '9 ct' only)
But I will check it out some more in case I'm mistaken.
Many thanks,
Marie.

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Originally Posted by pastime

Hi,
Will be listing some Gold and Silver charms.

Searched using 9 ct - nothing showing. Searched: 9 ct K 375 - nothing showing. 9 carat K 375 - still nothing.
I had already searched for just 'Gold charms' and selected 'Fine Jewellery', leading to several pages that showed gold-plated chains/pendants (should gold-plated items appear in 'Fine Jewellery')?
In that general sale, some 9ct items did come up.
So searched for 9ct charms only, and did get all the items showing plus additional listings.

It's a bit of a worry that the difference of a space: 9 ct or 9ct, results in not showing in a search - what is the best way to be seen, is their only one specific term that must be used?
I assume that Google will accept all variations, if used?

How many other types of searches does this affect?

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It is normal for searches to be specific about spaces. "£ 3" searches for listing with separated £ and 3 symbols, and £3 does not comply.
Plurals can be different, charm and charms usually return the same results.
Abbreviations also a problem as a search for 9ct would not return listings for 9carat

Hi Bill,
Thanks for that information. Is it your understanding that this applies to Google - thought that Google also searches info in the description when finding results and showing them?

Also, it must be in any platform's interest to link various, often used terms, when showing what items are for sale, otherwise they are restricting sales for their platform?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pastime

Hi Bill,
Thanks for that information. Is it your understanding that this applies to Google - thought that Google also searches info in the description when finding results and showing them?

Also, it must be in any platform's interest to link various, often used terms, when showing what items are for sale, otherwise they are restricting sales for their platform?

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It is the boolean algebra behind the search.
If "9ct" is in the search then show the result. OK.
But if you wanted the search also to show "9 ct", then you need the search engine to disregard every single space in every search, which would be hopeless.
Ebid can also search in description as well as title. there is a choice on the drop-down menu, so savvy Ebidders might have all of 9ct and 9 ct and 9 carat in their description

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Originally Posted by billsstamps

It is the boolean algebra behind the search.
If "9ct" is in the search then show the result. OK.
But if you wanted the search also to show "9 ct", then you need the search engine to disregard every single space in every search, which would be hopeless.
Ebid can also search in description as well as title. there is a choice on the drop-down menu, so savvy Ebidders might have all of 9ct and 9 ct and 9 carat in their description

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Crumbs, who knew! I understand your point about spaces being impossible - but what do you mean about the drop down menu, where is it, in the listing form? And are you saying that we can list the same listing in different sections to appear in all searches?

Does this explain why my 9ct watch fob doesn't show in 'watch fob' searches but does show in an 'open locket' search - how do I incorporate both?
Thanks for any help,
Marie.

Sorry, Bill - I shouldn't have asked you any more questions at this time of night, you are probably trying to get your evening meal together.
Will check in tomorrow and hope you are available.
Many thanks,
Marie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pastime

Crumbs, who knew! I understand your point about spaces being impossible - but what do you mean about the drop down menu, where is it, in the listing form? And are you saying that we can list the same listing in different sections to appear in all searches?

Does this explain why my 9ct watch fob doesn't show in 'watch fob' searches but does show in an 'open locket' search - how do I incorporate both?
Thanks for any help,
Marie.

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I think I am mistaken about general description searches, it looks like the "description" drop down is only available on your own listings
Attachment 65395

When I first saw the drop-down I thought it meant that the ebid search would look for all the listed criteria for whatever the buyer typed in the search box and that the seller was given the choice of which to search for the sake of convenience.

e.g if I had one store for vases and another bowls, by selecting "ebid store" if I was looking for a particular vase listing the search would ignore my 'bowls' store.

Same with "title" and "title and description". My key words are in the title, the description adds nothing new, just more details. So if I had 10,000 items to search through, it would be quicker to just search through the titles rather than title and description.???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pastime

Hi Bill,
Thanks for that information. Is it your understanding that this applies to Google - thought that Google also searches info in the description when finding results and showing them?

Also, it must be in any platform's interest to link various, often used terms, when showing what items are for sale, otherwise they are restricting sales for their platform?

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It's my understanding that google does search both the title and description and have thought that one reason for this was to prevent "key word spamming". On obay, at one time, my searches for A.D.Glass were flooded by brand new Far Eastern "Art Deco Style" glass jewellery with many variations in the title, but all with the exact same description.

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your reply, yes, I've only used that drop down for own listings and is very useful when wanting to edit a listing.

Do you have any thoughts as to why a listing I have, which is in the sub category 'watch fob' - doesn't show when searching 'watch fob', but does show when using 'open locket' (and not connected to watch fob listings)?
Thanks for any help,
Marie.

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Originally Posted by theElench

It's my understanding that google does search both the title and description and have thought that one reason for this was to prevent "key word spamming". On obay, at one time, my searches for A.D.Glass were flooded by brand new Far Eastern "Art Deco Style" glass jewellery with many variations in the title, but all with the exact same description.

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Hi Elench,
Yes, a good point, I'd forgotten that Google checks for that and probably, other things as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pastime

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your reply, yes, I've only used that drop down for own listings and is very useful when wanting to edit a listing.

Do you have any thoughts as to why a listing I have, which is in the sub category 'watch fob' - doesn't show when searching 'watch fob', but does show when using 'open locket' (and not connected to watch fob listings)?
Thanks for any help,
Marie.

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First thought is that sub category is not a description, so sub category wording would need to be included in description

I agree with Bill, there is no mention of "fob" or "chain" in the title.

Going back to my post #6, "Glass" is one of the 'strong' key words, leave it out of the title and my example won't appear in the results of the Date lined glass - 1910 - 1939 Art Deco, but will be seen in searches for "Art Deco" and "Vases"

If I may make a suggestion, to me the words that buyers would use to search with would be (in order of 'strength') 9ct gold. watch. chain. fob. Followed by as many as there are room for of the 'weaker' words like open locket. miniature water colours. Edwardian. hallmark.

The title doesn't have to be in good English, logical or make sense. It's ALL about guessing which words a buyer will put in the search box. Would someone looking for a fob for a watch chain start with "Edwardian"? I think it's more likely they would start with "9ct Gold", followed by some or all of watch, chain, or fob. The more words you can get in the title, particularly the first few words of the title, that they will type in the search box, the better.

By re-arranging your title a bit you can get your item seen in multiple searches.

Doh! I was sure that the title included 'watch fob' - and it did, on the original listing. It was the last two words of the title. I hadn't noticed that it had been chopped off when transferring the listing - a perfect example not seeing something because you are sure it's there. Feel a bit of an idiot (nothing new there!).

Thank you both for seeing it clearly, when I wasn't doing so - will now correct, bearing in mind both of your comments.
Having said that, obviously, 'watch fob' is mentioned in the first line of the description, so assume that the description details are not picked-up?

Many thanks for solving a puzzle for me, will check out my other transfers, in case I've made a similar mistake without realising it.
All the best,
Marie.

Don't feel too bad, it's so easily done. How do you think I could say for certain that without "glass" in the title my listing wouldn't appear in Date Lined Glass??

Shuffling the words around to get the key words right and somehow it got dropped. The item appeared in several searches except the one I really wanted it in. Kept seeing the title but it took a while to notice what "should be there" wasn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theElench

Don't feel too bad, it's so easily done. How do you think I could say for certain that without "glass" in the title my listing wouldn't appear in Date Lined Glass??

Shuffling the words around to get the key words right and somehow it got dropped. The item appeared in several searches except the one I really wanted it in. Kept seeing the title but it took a while to notice what "should be there" wasn't.

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Thanks for that, Elench - amazing how sometimes, you just don't see it, even after going round in circles!

Am now pinning listings to Pinterest - not sure if it helps, it is sometimes a dead end when researching items. Have you any idea if it does direct buyers to eBid?

I'm not sure about any of the other sites (I've never tried them) for connecting with prospective buyers, has anyone found any sites that do help? We could do with all the exposure we can get, to draw searches on to eBid.

Apart from google shopping I don't use any other sites to try to gain visibility, so can't help with experience of using Pinterest. My thread "Google Shopping" on the Website Suggestions board might have one or two tips you might find helpful. If you find they help, or if you find they don't, please add your observations to the thread.

I thought, just by viewing some of my items on GS, I had raised mine and ebids profile by getting "ebid - theElench" to appear on the left-hand side bar of sites. Seems there is more to it than that as while looking at other members items on GS I've found two more on the side-bar. Both with "Ebid - with Becky's Hoard and GoldenWonders following. I wonder why some searches show ebid and others don't. Any insight would be helpful and if more members can do the same it would get the ebid name some extra visibility.

Most of my sales are to buyers making their first purchase on the site and I always leave them Feedback as a way of counting my sales here. I think the majority of my buyers must come through GS as I don't do any social media promotion and as my sales on obay are now almost non-existent they can't be drawn here by leaflets I put in obay sales parcels.

Apart from checking that their listings can be found on GS I think, judging by how rarely it's mentioned, that it is overlooked by many members as possibly being a valuable resource that does bring buyers to ebid and anything that enables sellers to understand and use it better, could benefit all sellers here.

Apart from Google shopping, the only promotions that I am sure have resulted in sales are facebook group postings

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Originally Posted by madelaine

Apart from Google shopping, the only promotions that I am sure have resulted in sales are facebook group postings

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Hi Madelaine,
How does it work - and where are you getting your 'groups' from?
There did use to be a eBidder Support advising how to use social media, is that info still available?

Hi Elench,
Will be reading through your GS Thread, to see if I can pick-up some tips.

Various groups - all open so visible to everyone - mostly with rules about posting only once per day.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/greatstuffonebid

https://www.facebook.com/groups/eBidworldwide

https://www.facebook.com/groups/337594581302600

There is a special one for postcards

https://www.facebook.com/groups/260123774178587


That is not the lot but a representative selection

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Originally Posted by madelaine

Various groups - all open so visible to everyone - mostly with rules about posting only once per day.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/greatstuffonebid

https://www.facebook.com/groups/eBidworldwide

https://www.facebook.com/groups/337594581302600

There is a special one for postcards

https://www.facebook.com/groups/260123774178587


That is not the lot but a representative selection

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Thanks, Madelaine - will check that out.
Marie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pastime

Thanks, Madelaine - will check that out.
Marie.

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I am a member of some of those groups, but it is too much bother to add things when Ebid is ticking along OK, and I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of messages and alerts to look at Facebook.
I am told that buying adverts on social media and smartphone apps can be profitable, but never tried it. Probably because I dislike pop-up adverts so much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billsstamps

I am a member of some of those groups, but it is too much bother to add things when Ebid is ticking along OK, and I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of messages and alerts to look at Facebook.
I am told that buying adverts on social media and smartphone apps can be profitable, but never tried it. Probably because I dislike pop-up adverts so much.

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Thanks for that, Bill - I had a look (and could see you and Madelaine as members) but I do hate the way F'b follows you around, slowing down anything that you click on whilst monitoring everything you do (Google's bad enough!) but, of course, they all monetise our movements and it's difficult to avoid.

Re: being too precise - was baffled that when checking on a Embroidered item, that it show up on a search for 'embroidered' but not on a 'embroidery' search. Since both terms mean the same thing shouldn't some words be joined together in searches - how many other terms wouldn't show if used by different searchers using slightly different terms?

Also, again like the 'watch fob' - listed a Charles Horner brooch, didn't put Victorian/Edwardian in title, but did put both terms in the description and it didn't show in either search of Vic/Ed brooch.
Had to add Victorian to title, but had to remove much of the info in the title - if we have to add that info to the title, in order to be seen, it it possible to increase the length of the Listing title?