Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........

[youmeus]

I am a Christian and like iwiw, I learned a long time ago to not be too outspoken as that is not the way to favorably impress others.

One verse that always comes to mind when there is a discussion like this is the last portion of Philippians 2:12---"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

I have lived long enough to see many miracles so can't be a doubter.

[burgyeb]

I like the way the NIV Bible states Philippians 2:12,.... "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed. ....continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." Growing and developing in one's faith is an active process, to be continued until the finish. The fear and trembling are referring to reverencing God, and holding firm to his good purpose. The Apostle Paul is addressing a mature group of believers in his opening remarks to the believers of Philippi. [Philippians 1:3-6] Here Paul is speaking of the completion of the good work started in them by God.

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed......work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." [Philippians 2:12 KJV] Nice there also.

[squern]

I am an atheist. As far as I am concerned there is no god of any form. God is an invention of man from when we did not understand the world, now that we do understand religion is irrelevant. As for miracles, yes they do happen, but they are not some form of divine intervention they are more likely to be extreme good fortune. if any divine intervention was to take place then devoutly religious people would not die in the same proportion in car crashes, plane crashes, natural disasters etc. A friend summed it up well when he told me about an experience he had on holiday when somebody was talking about the wonder of God and how he stopped the waters of the Boxing Day Tsunami just yards from a church, a true miracle. My friend pointed out that if he could stop the waters then why did a quarter of a million people die and thousands of other churches get destroyed. He did not get an answer.

I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.

The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.

It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.

If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.

In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.

And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.

And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.

And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.

[victorfrank]

[QUOTE=burgyeb;1575425]Attachment 42976



.............for those of varying faiths to objectively and subjectively discuss why they hold the beliefs or lack of beliefs that they do? Can this be done without arguing, insults, or attacks on others belief systems?

Apparently not seems to be the answer.

[purplestevie]

I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.

The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.

It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.

If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.

In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.

And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.

And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.

And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.

My late father was a lapsed catholic and my mum is protestant (i dont believe in religion and was not forced to). My mother regularly tells me about their wedding day when my fathers side of the family except his parents refused to attend the wedding because my mother was a protestant!

A friend of mine who is a shia muslim more or less forced her daughter to become a muslim (more or less brainwashing her). We have had many heated discussions about religion and basically she admits she has been brainwashed!

I dont believe religion should be taught in schools it does no good at all for community relations it only divides community's (i saw this at my daughters school). I'm sure there are better ways of living a good life and bringing different peoples of the world together than religion. When your on the outside looking in it is quite frightening!

[youmeus]

[QUOTE=victorfrank;1576020]

Attachment 42976



.............for those of varying faiths to objectively and subjectively discuss why they hold the beliefs or lack of beliefs that they do? Can this be done without arguing, insults, or attacks on others belief systems?

Apparently not seems to be the answer.

AMEN!

[squern]

I don't see any insults or attacks.
I see debate and exchange of views and experiences.

Unless you see questioning the "official line" as an attack?

[crafters_corner]

I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.

The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.

It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.

If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.

In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.

And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.

And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.

And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.

An excellent post which articulates my own feelings and lack of belief.

I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I am now a committed anti-theist.

[olivia8143]

An excellent post which articulates my own feelings and lack of belief.

I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I am now a committed anti-theist.

Me too



The link that attaches to this image is on my About Me page

[kreativebargains]

I was brought up in a vaguely Christian household, under no pressure to conform or otherwise.

The older I get, the less I believe that organised religion is a good thing, and that Christianity, as practised by the established churches is relevant. It preaches a self-satified, intolerant, patronising propaganda, and dismisses all other beliefs with an astounding arrogance.

It seems to me to be rather infantile to expect certain words spoken in the right order, by a person got up in peculiar regalia to make a difference one way or the other. A sort of uber "Daddy mend!". It belongs to a past of ignorance, deference and unquestioning obedience which is out of place in today's world. We ought to have grown out of it by now.

If we see what we call primitive people deferring to some befeathered bloke, chanting of strange sounds waving bones and potiuons about, we consider them backward.

In the past we have sent our own version to chant words they don't understand, whilst decked out in peculiar garb, to "educate" them in the True Path. And dismissed their culture, beliefs, and social systems without another thought. And the Christian church still does, believing, as it does that it, and only it, has all the right answers to all the world's ills.

And when you look at the actions of those who profess to follow these teachings, you have to add in hypocracy as well. Protestants murdering Catholics (and vice versa) in Ireland, child abuse, Vatican corruption, dodgy financial doings - all contrary to the teachings of this faith, and all carried out by people who would call themselves religious.

And if you live in Iraq, you'd better be the right sort of Muslim, otherwise another Muslim might kill you.

And there's supposed to be a God behind all this? The less I have to do with it, the better.

Totally agree.

My other half is religious (Seventh Day Adventist). I pick her and the kids up every week and sometimes hear some of the service. Every week I shake my head in disbelief that they believe every word. But each to their own.

As for your comment 'And there's supposed to be a God behind all this?' the answer to everything that is wrong is always 'yes. but there's a devil as well'. So at least as far as Seventh Day Adventists are concerned all that is good that happens in the world is the work of god and all that is bad is the work of the devil.