Is It Possible............Is It Safe..........

[squern]

I don't think the purpose of anyone on this thread is to make anyone change their mind about their beliefs.
It's an interesting discussion between people of different beliefs, each as sincere as the other.

And it's important, as you say, that each person is free to hold whatever beliefs he or she wishes, without interference or intolerance from others who feel differently.

That's where the problems have arisen all through history - one set of "believers" trying to impose their particular brand of faith on others against their will, or asserting the supremacy of their own beliefs. Often on the point of a sword.

People who profess to follow the Commandments, have had no problem in slaughtering others who don't. Or who do.

[burgyeb]

I don't think the purpose of anyone on this thread is to make anyone change their mind about their beliefs.
It's an interesting discussion between people of different beliefs, each as sincere as the other.

And it's important, as you say, that each person is free to hold whatever beliefs he or she wishes, without interference or intolerance from others who feel differently.

That's where the problems have arisen all through history - one set of "believers" trying to impose their particular brand of faith on others against their will, or asserting the supremacy of their own beliefs. Often on the point of a sword.

I agree this discussion is quite interesting. Appreciate the input from others of differing beliefs, and life experiences. Most have expressed that a person is free to believe as they choose.

My comment on "making anyone change their mind about their beliefs", may have been a response to your question, that followed your opinions about the Bible. Your intent or purpose, as you stated, was not to change others mind about what they believe.

If this discussion is able to continue with these basic principles of civility, it could prove productive.

[kreativebargains]

While this thread contains people who are willing to allow free choice and have an open discussion there are too many who do want to force their religious beliefs on others throughout the world, and far too frequently with the bomb or the bullet. At the moment religious beliefs are causing death in the Central African Republic, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Egypt, Nigeria, Kenya, Somalia, Burma, Pakistan and probably many more. The people doing these things are doing so in the name of their version of God. They all strongly believe like all people of a religious persuasion that their God is the one and only God and that they are doing his work. Yes it is mere people who are committing these atrocities, but they are doing so in the name of religion, I have never heard of an atheist planting a bomb in the name of atheism.

[victorfrank]

Anyone who murders, abuses, bombs or commits any atrocity in the name of religion, and the religion promotes or sanctions such actions (not that I know of any) is following a false religion and 'religious' prophets who promote such things are false prophets.

[kreativebargains]

Anyone who murders, abuses, bombs or commits any atrocity in the name of religion, and the religion promotes or sanctions such actions (not that I know of any) is following a false religion and 'religious' prophets who promote such things are false prophets.

As far as I am concerned they are all false prophets. If the fast communications of today were around in Israel 2,000 years ago would the 'miracles' performed by Jesus have stood up to scrutiny?

[victorfrank]

The lives of Christian believers today stand witness to 'miracles'. In the recent past, many have given their lives in the most horrific of circumstances because they have an un-shakeable belief in the miracle of salvation, brought by Christ's death and Resurrection. Just one example - Saint Maximilian Maria Kolbe.

[purplestevie]

Several years ago we went to a local open day at a derelict church, we were asked if we would like tea and biscuits and sat down and chatted to the organisers for 5 minutes or so, then they asked us which church we attended. When we said we were atheists they got up and walked away!

[kreativebargains]

Several years ago we went to a local open day at a derelict church, we were asked if we would like tea and biscuits and sat down and chatted to the organisers for 5 minutes or so, then they asked us which church we attended. When we said we were atheists they got up and walked away!

You can't beat a bit of tolerance.

[kreativebargains]

The lives of Christian believers today stand witness to 'miracles'. In the recent past, many have given their lives in the most horrific of circumstances because they have an un-shakeable belief in the miracle of salvation, brought by Christ's death and Resurrection. Just one example - Saint Maximilian Maria Kolbe.

Giving your life in horrific circumstances because you have an un-shakeable belief in something is not proof of a miracle, possibly insanity but not a miracle. If it is then there are several Muslim 'martyrs' who have performed miracles while blowing themselves and others to pieces.

[lakeleilani]

I would still say that it is a fact that God did not create the Earth and stars. We now know how stars and planets are created. In addition the evidence is there that the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old not 6,000. Add in the knowledge that we now have for how life has evolved on Earth and major sections of the bible are discredited. If these biblical assertions are incorrect, which they are then the whole story collapses. I have no problem with people having their beliefs. Mine are not beliefs they are a response to proven facts.

I have a problem with the idea that the earth is 6000 years old, and not all Christians accept this. Those who do, base their beliefs around the genealogy of tribes and important families that were recorded in ancient times. I question the time system used in these genealogies, and for the same reason I question whether some people in the Bible really lived to be several hundred years old. At the end of the day, I don't think it matters how old the earth actually is.

I do, however, believe that God was the creator of nature, including the fascinating universe that we know so little about. We know that evolution occurs in nature, and we know something of how stars and celestial bodies are formed - or at least we think we do. But it all had to start from somewhere; all of nature is too finely tuned to have occurred randomly, in my opinion. Even when I was going through a phase of trying not to believe in God, I couldn't accept that there wasn't a designing mind behind the furthest reaches of the universe to the lowliest ant. I am wary of taking everything in the Bible literally, such as the 7 days of creation - a day could just be a 'phase', such as this occurred first, then that.

I am not clever enough to be able to analyse the Bible in great depth, but as Squern says, it was written long after the events happened (in many cases), and people needed the message to be presented in a way that they could understand at that time. It is now just as difficult for us to understand the messages in the Bible in our times, which is probably why so many modern translations have been written. Personally, I find the Bible baffling, and usually some historical explanation is required to enable the message to be fully appreciated.