Scottish Independence... What are your thoughts?

[peterpunto08]

Why did SNP leadership want to remain in Scotland had they got independence?

Just changing one yoke for another

'....meet the new boss,.....same as the old boss'

Maybe its the way we all 'choose' the ruling class that's at fault!

[westlondoncarparts]

Peter, regarding post #1001, did you mean ‘Why did SNP leadership want to remain in EU had they got independence?’ rather than ‘Why did SNP leadership want to remain in Scotland had they got independence?’

[peterpunto08]

Peter, regarding post #1001, did you mean ‘Why did SNP leadership want to remain in EU had they got independence?’ rather than ‘Why did SNP leadership want to remain in Scotland had they got independence?’

I did indeed !

Apologies for not having my fingers & brain working together.

[PetBazaar]

Why did SNP leadership want to remain in Scotland had they got independence?

Just changing one yoke for another

'....meet the new boss,.....same as the old boss'

Maybe its the way we all 'choose' the ruling class that's at fault!

I think, perphaps, it's because the EU just isn't such a big issue up here. Sure, there are folk that are against it, just like anywhere else, but the whole immigration thing isn't such a problem and the EU is well down the list of concerns.

The new boss / old boss thing is just completely wrong when viewed from a Scottish perspective. You have to remember that every pound that we raise (with some minor exceptions) goes to Westminster. Westminster then gives it back to us to spend as we see fit. We can't vary Corporation Tax, or VAT. We can only vary income tax to a limited extent. Excise, fuel tax all of it, raised in Scotland, goes to London, we can't vary it in any way. We can't scrap bedroom tax, we can't vary the rates of benefits and whatnot.

But to see what can happen, Holyrood has only just (as part of the Scotland Act 2012) been given power on Stamp Duty. So we scrapped it.

Fortunately for government coffers, and folk with smaller homes, we replaced it with something more progressive ( the Land & Buildings Transaction Tax). The effect of this is that each rate of tax is only charged on the part of the price that is within the relevant rate band, as opposed to Stamp Duty where the highest applicable rate of tax is charged on the whole price.

£325,000 is the tipping point where you start to pay more than you would under the old Stamp Duty regime. If your house is worth less you pay less, perhaps a lot less. Bearing in mind that the average house price in Scotland is around £170,000 this doesn't seem too unreasonable.

The SNP presumably recognise that despite having to comply with EU laws, we'd still have the freedom to vary all of the above. Which as shown with Stamp Duty, doesn't seem to be a bad situation to be in.

[squern]

I'm fully behind the Scots wanting to decide their own future direction.
But one thing I don't understand is the stance on powers they already have, for instance income tax.

You have the power to vary the income tax rate, but haven't done so after complaining that it is too high.
A cynic might suggest that the consequences would be of your own making, and that is a responsibility that can't be blamed on Westminster, so isn't taken.

Ditto, the Scottish National Health Service - it is in your control, so if it is like a dog's breakfast you must either fix it or take responsibility for how it is.

This is not a criticism, just an observation from a long way south of the border. One would have thought that, to assert your independence, you would have used the powers you already have.

[suesjools]

Wow, Pets, the average house price in Scotland (at 170,000 pounds) is waaaaaay more expensive than here. Either your houses are much nicer than ours, or you're getting taxed out the wazoo. Just my 2 cents...

Best wishes for many sales to all,

[PetBazaar]

I'm fully behind the Scots wanting to decide their own future direction.
But one thing I don't understand is the stance on powers they already have, for instance income tax.

You have the power to vary the income tax rate, but haven't done so after complaining that it is too high.
A cynic might suggest that the consequences would be of your own making, and that is a responsibility that can't be blamed on Westminster, so isn't taken.

Ditto, the Scottish National Health Service - it is in your control, so if it is like a dog's breakfast you must either fix it or take responsibility for how it is.

This is not a criticism, just an observation from a long way south of the border. One would have thought that, to assert your independence, you would have used the powers you already have.

No, you're absolutely right. The NHS is under our control, in as much as we can spend however much, or little as we want within the constraints of the annual block grant. However, as part of the system of block grant and Barnett formula if the UK cuts NHS spending in England and Wales then the budget allocated to NHS Scotland (and HSCNI, I think) drops too. Hence the whole "only Indy can protect the NHS budget" argument in the run up to the referendum

The tax rate adjustment is a little more complex, as it's one of those powers that, on paper, looks like a good idea, but in reality doesn't really work. There's also a complication.

Ultimately the goal of any budgets must first and foremost be to balance the books and as we all know, in the budget every year, the Chancellor giveth and the Chancellor taketh away. The problem with the devolved tax powers is that although we have the power to change the standard tax rate we don't have the power to change any other (meaningfull) taxes in order to balance the books. So if the rate is reduced, we can't raise anything else in order to compensate. In addition raising tax comes with it's own very obvious electoral suicide issues so is unlikely to ever happen

However, here's the complication. We can't vary the tax anyway. What isn't commonly known about the tax varying power is that it would have been administered by, at the time, Inland Revenue (now HMRC) and the systems were put in place to deal with it. However, sometime between 2000 and 2003, Inland revenue announced that the system was to be mothballed, presumably after the Lib/Lab coalitions decided not to vary taxes. It's now no longer possible to use the system without IT upgrades which would have to be paid for from the Scottish budget. Given that the system is due to change by 2016 as part of the provisions of the Scotland Act 2012, it seems unlikely that anything will happen before then.

[PetBazaar]

Last post from me on this thread today...

A comment, a poll, and some unintended consequences.

First the comment, courtesy of John McTernan, Labour Party Advisor and former spin doctor, 23rd October 2014

“Routed in their homelands. A leader so beleaguered he has had to resign. No credible domestic policy agenda. In danger of irrelevance in Scotland at the next General Election. These are disastrous times for Scotland’s party.

I mean, of course, the Scottish National Party.”

Then the poll, courtesy of IPSOS Mori for STV, 29th October 2014

Scottish voting intentions in the 2015 General Election (no of seats prediction).
SNP 54 (+48), Lab 4 (-37), LD 1 (-10), Con 0 (-1)


And finally the unintended consequences.
You know that whole argument about English Votes for English Laws? Well the SNP has a policy of not voting on English only matters at Westminster.


OK, admittedly GE 2015 is still 6 months away and polls are regularly wrong, but this one makes you think.


Oh, and lastly a question.

Is anyone actually interested in my random ramblings on Tales from North Britain, or should I let the thread pass away peacefully?

[CarnoustieCats]

Is anyone actually interested in my random ramblings on Tales from North Britain,
or should I let the thread pass away peacefully?

- would get withdrawal symptons .. more please

[suesjools]

Is anyone actually interested in my random ramblings on Tales from North Britain,
or should I let the thread pass away peacefully?

- would get withdrawal symptons .. more please

Ditto this. I do so enjoy learning new things, even if I don't understand half of 'em, keeps the old grey matter ticking away.

Best wishes for many sales to all,