Scottish Independence... What are your thoughts?

[DandC_Warehouse]

no insult was intended, was more of a joke

[astral276]

If Scotland's membership is interrupted, then surely they are not an EU member? I'm not sure how else "interrupted" can be interpreted.

In that context then yes, I believe that on the date of independence Scotland will not be an EU member state. Scotland will be in a kind of limbo - not where they were and not where they want to be.

Given the will then anything is possible, though I doubt consensus of all current member states would be realised in the given timeframe (if at all).

The argument that because something already exists that Scotland must be allowed to take part does not stand up. Agreements can be made in times different to now. While changes may occur that do not merit tearing up such agreements that does not mean such differences would be accepted from a new member. Take the UK Schengen Area opt out - that was agreed before it became a part of EU law. Today, as it is now part of EU law, I doubt very much if the UK could obtain the same opt out or that Scotland will be able to - particularly (as previously said) if the UK becomes a non-EU country or moves in that direction.

Scotland states that their intended destination is the EU. If their and the UK's destinations become opposed then why should the UK invest time, effort, and money into anything just for the convenience of Scotland. Especially when Scotland are going to walk away from it as soon as it suits them - and to hell with the UK.

This, if not yet a policy, is also an ambition of the SNP

Too much is 'ambition'. So many promises made that are not within the SNP's gift. An amazing leap of faith required.

Go for it. To decimate an old saying... You could find yourself living in interesting times.

I may even resurrect an old family occupation of Border Reiver (as some of my Scottish ancestors are reported to have been) though now I would be raiding in the opposite direction.

[westlondoncarparts]

Current English economic policy is for wages for the majority to go down in real terms. Current English economic policy is distinctly hostile towards public sector workers and has been reducing public sector wages and pensions in real terms. Before this, both the Edward Heath and Margaret Thatcher economic policies had elements of managing the decline of manufacturing industries. The lack of Scottish representation in the Westminster Parliament post independence would make it easier for there to be more Conservative Party led Governments in future and more of the current economic policies. One of the consequences of Margaret Thatcher’s attacks on the unions is that union pressure for employers to pay better wages is much less than it used to be so the taxpayer has now taken up the union role by having to pay out high levels of welfare benefits to workers to compensate for low pay and to allow them to afford the basics of life of a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs and clothes on their backs. Once a progressive independent Scotland could throw off the shackles of regressive English economic policy and could get a vibrant and dynamic and prosperous economy going again, it would be in Scotland’s best interests to have border controls to prevent English economic refugees from crossing the border in unsustainable numbers.

The Italians had the right idea two thousand years ago when they built The Wall to keep the English out. What remains of it does not follow the exact line of the current English / Scottish border so unfortunately could not be restored by a resurgent go getting Scotland to help control movements over the border. What the Scots could do, however, is to invest heavily in the equipment that identifies stowaways hidden on trucks and make sure that every truck trying to cross the border from England is examined so that all attempts at illegal immigration by this method into Scotland by the English are thwarted.

As a side issue, but an important side issue, the various Acts of Union ended up with a single country called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is the country that has membership of the EU. If Scotland were to leave the Union and to become an independent country, the country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland that is currently a member of the EU would no longer exist. So if Scotland had to apply to rejoin the EU, surely what is left of the current UK would have to do so as well.

[MADMAX666]

I think you have that arse about face. Norway and Switzerland are part of the Schengan Area but not in the EU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

Also, as the Schengan Area is now part of EU law it would be highly unlikely (if not impossible) for Scotland to obtain an opt out like the UK if they joined the EU. The UK couldn't get one now - times have changed.



The stock response of 'bullying' and 'scaremongering' to any unpalatable truth is starting to wear a bit thin.

doh but what I meant was they do not have to go hand in hand
As for needing a passport this will never happen between Scotland and England and i believe Scotland will remain in a CTA like Ireland does

I know some say we would have to join Schengen but we could go for an opt out like England

[PetBazaar]

As a side issue, but an important side issue, the various Acts of Union ended up with a single country called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is the country that has membership of the EU. If Scotland were to leave the Union and to become an independent country, the country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland that is currently a member of the EU would no longer exist. So if Scotland had to apply to rejoin the EU, surely what is left of the current UK would have to do so as well.

As far as I'm aware, on this one rUK is going to claim "continuer state" status. What the legalities are, I've no idea, but I've heard arguments for and against.

What it would demonstrate though is that Westminster has never really regarded the 1707 Act of Union to be a union of equals, rather than an English parliamentary takeover of Scotland.

[westlondoncarparts]

Energy is a prime example of how Scotland can achieve when it starts to decouple from the Westminster Parliament that seems to be so far out of touch with the needs of the people that it is supposed to serve.

The current Scottish strategic vision for electricity generation and energy renewables development can be found on these websites:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati.../11/17094217/0
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati.../08/04110353/0

The intention is that by 2020 Scottish renewables will provide the equivalent of Scotland’s entire electricity requirement. It looks likely that this vision will be delivered.

Alex Salmond has been a key advocate and driver of this strategic vision. The vision would not have been developed had it been left to Westminster.

Such a target should be possible for the rest of the UK also, albeit with variations in the renewables mix according to local circumstances. Why has the Westminster Government not developed the same vision rather than have the rest of the UK facing the prospect of energy shortages?

Fitch, the international ratings agency that rates the credit worthiness of countries as well as companies, has published a report today advising that Europe is not going to be able to reduce its dependence upon Russian energy sources in the near to medium term. The hidden message in the report is to expect price rises in energy once demand for energy from a reviving European economy starts picking up.

https://www.fitchratings.com/gws/en/...e?pr_id=857374

This is sobering reading given that the current English Prime Minister has been picking fights with President Putin, boss of the superpower that happens to be the world’s largest combined oil and gas producer. David Cameron has also been encouraging the EU to apply sanctions against the Russian Federation because President Putin will not interfere in the internal affairs of Eastern Ukraine. The leaders of both the English Labour and Liberal Democrat parties are largely supportive of David Cameron’s stance so the rUK stance towards Russia is not likely to change significantly after the next General Election. The geo-political risk here is that the rUK and the West misjudge how to manage their relationships with the Russian Federation.

In the worst case scenario with the relationships between Europe and the Russian Federation severely impaired and with oil and gas prices shooting through the roof in Europe due to reduced supplies from Russia, not only would Scotland benefit from its renewables developments but she would also be able to fill up the coffers of her new Sovereign Wealth Fund with all the tax revenue from the increased value of her oil and gas production. The rest of Europe would be beating a path to Scotland's door wanting to buy her oil and gas. If Alex Salmond were still First Minister, he would be sat at Holyrood with the biggest grin on his face imaginable and could legitimately say ‘ told you so’.

If Scotland can move ahead on energy in such a dramatic way under her own enterprise, just think what she could do in other areas if no longer held back by the English Westminster Parliament that has failed the British population for so long in so many aspects of our national life.

[MPS16]

.... if no longer held back by the English Westminster Parliament that has failed the British population for so long in so many aspects of our national life.

Yes it has failed the English nation.

Another good day for UKIP though.

Slightly overshadowed by the Communist invasion of Ukraine.

[EmpHolisticGifts]

Apologies if this has been posted before... no time to scroll though several pages.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ttle-1-04.html

[PetBazaar]

Apologies if this has been posted before... no time to scroll though several pages.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ttle-1-04.html

It's sad that some people can be so ill informed about current affairs as to believe that this vote will "make no difference".

It just shows how detached from the decision making process some people are.

[zaranvalesasterix]

My manufacturing business survived the recession during Margaret Thatchers government quite easily, a recession brought on by years of a Labour government. It only became difficult during the Scottish led Labour government which caused another recession that this government has been left to sort out.

I thought the wall was the border of the Roman Empire and built to keep the Scots out?