I am 'deeply unpatriotic', says Nick Clegg

[MPS16]

"Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has hit out at advocates of the UK leaving the EU, accusing them of being "deeply unpatriotic"."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27422707

He will hand me a white feather next.

[cambrensis]

...and as Doctor Johnson (the feller who compiled an English Dictionary) said:

"A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation. This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion."

Boswell quotes him as having said: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

I'll settle for the referendum - and we had that about 40 years ago!

[astral276]

I'll settle for the referendum - and we had that about 40 years ago!

Errr...We have never had a referendum on if we wish to be part of the European Union. AFAIAA, there have been only two referendums in which I have had a choice; remaining in the EEC (note the word 'remaining' there, we didn't even get a say on joining the EEC) and the Alternative Vote.

As for Clegg... Of course he wants the UK in the EU. He is washed up as a politician and the EU gravy train is the last he is likely to catch. He is such a joke that even businesses would not take him on for an 'in' to governmental (anyone ever noticed how 'mental' is so apt in that word?) contacts.


Ah! A list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referen...ajor_referenda

[suesjools]

Boswell quotes him as having said: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Considering the number of things done globally in the name of patriotism, (from our idiotic Patriot Act to civil wars and other such turmoil) I'm inclined to agree with Boswell.

Best wishes for many sales to all,

[westlondoncarparts]

The Conservative Manifesto for the June 1970 General Election stated that a Conservative Government would seek entry into the European Economic Community only if suitable terms could be negotiated. Entry was subsequently agreed by the UK Parliament when the negotiated terms were put before it for a vote. The UK did not suddenly join the EEC by some unexpected Act of Divine Intervention. It joined the EEC through the standard British democratic processes. The British electorate voted in a Conservative Government that said it would seek to negotiate best terms. The British Parliament that was voted in by the British electorate voted collectively to join the EEC. That process is called democracy in action.

http://www.conservative-party.net/ma...anifesto.shtml

There are issues around the way the EU operates today and its future direction. Unfortunately in the UK we do not seem to be able to have decent debates about this based on facts so all we get is the constant complaining based upon perception that is not always correct. Whether you like him or not, listening and understanding what Nick Clegg has to say in a respectful way would add to the quality of the debate over the EU.

[MPS16]

....Whether you like him or not, listening and understanding what Nick Clegg has to say in a respectful way would add to the quality of the debate over the EU.

Is it respectful (your word not mine) of him to say that I am "DEEPLY UNPATRIOTIC" because I and many others do not share his views on the European Union.

[emdiecast]

So Nick 'nobody' Clegg thinks it is patriotic to allow our country to be run by unelected foreign politicians who generally dislike all Britain stands for. I don't call that patriotism, I call that treason.

[astral276]

Is it respectful (your word not mine) of him to say that I am "DEEPLY UNPATRIOTIC" because I and many others do not share his views on the European Union.

No politician has any respect for the electorate. If they didn't need us to vote every four years they would pay us no attention at all.

Best we can hope for is that the next government works with a minority if needs be and consign the LibDems back to obscurity.

[tonyreddevil]

I'm definetly up for a Referendum

[cambrensis]

So Nick 'nobody' Clegg thinks it is patriotic to allow our country to be run by unelected foreign politicians who generally dislike all Britain stands for. I don't call that patriotism, I call that treason.

I think you may be confusing the Commission (a civil service) with the Parliament (elected). At the moment I must admit I'd be hard pressed to think of any Parliament that does not have a Civil Service. The European Parliament can and does take the Commission to task when necessary; I am not foolish enough to expect it to be perfect. I seem to remember the whole Commission resigning a few years back after pressure from the Parliament. I can never remember our Civil Service doing that.

However, these things are of small account. When we had the referendum of 1975 we were all aware that the intent was for it to get ever closer, so the European Union was no surprise. Well over 60% of voters turned out for that referendum. Fewer than 25% turn out for MEP elections. This is not through disaffection with the EU. This is run of the mill stuff in UK politics. Huge numbers refrain from voting in General Elections as well. Of course, they still moan about what "they" do, whether "they" be in Westminster or Strasbourg. It's rather pointless calling for referenda under such conditions. Much better, in my opinion, to whip up some enthusiasm about elections than to encourage people to turn out once every forty years, jerk a knee, and then start another 40 year campaign!

I assumed we'd all learned quite recently that the real problem in this Western world of ours is created by the financial institutions, not by Strasbourg or Brussels or Washington D.C. Until these boys are fully accountable we are going to continue going from boom to bust. However, the flag is waved and we are told, by patriotic politicians that we need to be at the centre of banking. I wonder how true that actually is; and I wonder what really brought about the demise of our manufacturing base, on either side of the Atlantic - and why.

During the last recession we had many British workers going to Germany to get work. I do not recall a political party being formed here to fight against that. "Not in my back yard" seems to be getting more and more common here though.

Earlier today I went out to buy a power tool, one of those small sanders. I bought one in the mid price range as it seemed solidly built and had the functions I wanted. I could not see where it was made, but the print was small. I assumed it was from the Far East as many of these things are now. Having reached home with it and put it through its paces I was impressed by the build, quality and control I had over it. I sat down with a magnifying glass..."Made in Germany". There is still hope that we shall not cut off noses to spite faces...