British Postmark identification

[Raymondwatkins]

For Deano and Cambrensis

Following on from my earlier comments, I visited the British Postal Museum and Archive (BPMA) today and checked out their copies of two books by Alcock & Holland. The first "The Postmarks of Great Britain and Ireland: Being a Survey of British Postmarks from 1660 to 1940" is a very detailed history which contains many thousand images of postmarks, the numbers of which constitute the numbers (as in "A&H 1234) referred to in my first post. The second book "British Postmarks - a Short History and Guide" is less detailed and only includes some of the images from the first book, but is nevertheless good reading.

Neither of these books constitute a catalogue of values - you need to look at the SG"Collect British Postmarks" catalogue for that. I borrowed a copy of the 2013 edition via my local library. In my infancy as a postmark collector - yes, I have probably got the bug - I think a copy of all three would be all the tools needed to set off on a new collecting hobby as time-consuming as collecting stamps.

Thanks again for your help in pointing me in the right direction.

best regards

Ray

[cambrensis]

Glad you're on the right track at last, Ray. I should not have expected these books to be catalogues of values; values vary with time, and i believe Alcock died in the early 1990s.

That you now have the bug is clear since you made a special trip to find out what you needed to know. I did not know of the existence of the library you went to, but if asked would have replied that I'd find out!

In my boyhood dabblings with stamps, my main interest was in what could be learned from the stamps themselves. I remember clearly some Jamaican stamps which altered my perception of "English comprehension exercises" in school completely - but that's another story which I shall not bore others with. Postmarks used to infuriate me as they frequently confused some detail which might have been important to me.

From your enthusiasm, I now see the error in my thinking at that early age! Good luck in your quest!

Ian

[cambrensis]

Dean is right with what he says.....

Postmarks are a minefield and it is a brave person who gets into collecting them. However I am finding more and more people are getting into Slogan Cancelations

I had never heard of Slogan Cancellations. However, I do know that "Slogan" originally means "War Cry/Song" and is of Gaelic origin! "Not a lot of people..."

[Raymondwatkins]

Thanks Ian

The BPMA (British Postal Museum and Archive) is much more than a library, as it is the Archive for Royal Mail postal material going back hundreds of years and also includes a massive stamp collection etc. It has a pretty comprehensive website at:-

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/

There is also an offshoot museum at Debden where larger items are kept. BPMA will be moving to much larger premises in 2016 where much more material will be on show rather than as, at present, kept in storage. At present there is not too much on show, but if you need to research anything to do with Royal Mail history it is worth a visit as items you wish to see can be brought up to the public area by request (although you need to first identify the relevant items in the catalogue so that they can then go downstairs to retrieve the item for you).

I think these forums will be causing us a lot of trouble in the future, as they seem to be drawing us into areas we did not appreciate before, but which now exercise our minds.

best wishes

Ray

[deanosaur1972]

I think these forums will be causing us a lot of trouble in the future, as they seem to be drawing us into areas we did not appreciate before, but which now exercise our minds.

best wishes

Ray

A very appropriate comment and is really what a forum is all about

I have purchased and received the SG Collect British Postmarks Book, thanks to your comments on how detailed it all is.

Just going through a box of my 'not to be listed' stuff has been a very big wake up call. Not in monetary terms but in keyword terms - a lot of postmarks that the bay simply does not have any listing for whatsoever (0 results on a 3 keyword Google organic search as well).

So my challenge to myself is by next year I want to have fairly decent postmark section and in the process I am going to learn a hell of lot.

[Raymondwatkins]

Hi Deano

I am glad that my question has caused you to expand your interests into postmarks! Best of luck with identifying interesting postmarks on your postcards - hope you do find something valuable. I have managed to curtail expanding my own interests to postmarks, after much deliberation!

I too have a pile of items "not to be listed" - including a hundred or so postcards that came with a large box of stamps I purchased some time ago. Most are Swiss, and some appear to have slogan / event postmarks - I will need to utilise Google translate a bit! Not sure yet how to go about how to sell them - in one job lot or singly. I will need to think about that.

regards

Ray

[Posbear]

I too am on a learning curve for postmarks. Most of mine are on German Stammblatt (translation: stamp album cards) or on postcards.

I have questions for those that are also interested in the subject.

1. Do we need a postmarks sub-cat for stamps?
2. If not, what eBid category to list them in? Stamps, Postcards or both?
3. Which keywords should be first? Theme, country, town, year etc.?
4. What do we call them? I've seen.... postmarks, cancels, cancellations, slogan postmarks, pictorial postmarks, cachet cancels, special postmark ........

One thing I do know, it's a whole new ball game

[deanosaur1972]

I too am on a learning curve for postmarks. Most of mine are on German Stammblatt (translation: stamp album cards) or on postcards.

I have questions for those that are also interested in the subject.

1. Do we need a postmarks sub-cat for stamps?
2. If not, what eBid category to list them in? Stamps, Postcards or both?
3. Which keywords should be first? Theme, country, town, year etc.?
4. What do we call them? I've seen.... postmarks, cancels, cancellations, slogan postmarks, pictorial postmarks, cachet cancels, special postmark ........

One thing I do know, it's a whole new ball game

It is a fun new ball game...

If you are selling an item just for the postmark (excluding modern Royal Mail issues, National Postal Museum, Maxim cards etc), then the correct category is:

Stamps : Philately & Postal History > Postal History

It depends where the value is, if a postcard has more value than the postmark then it should be under postcards. You can always include the detail in the title to keyword in the postmark collectors.

The keywords depend on the type of postmark. If you are unsure what type of postmark you may have then put up a picture on this thread, I would be happy (if I know the info) to help you or anyone else that does so. Although I am not going to be much help on German postmarks!

There are currently 412 listings in the Postal History category - there will be over a 1,000 within a couple of months, including a few real marquee listings.

[Posbear]

Thanks deano
I think I am beginning to like postmarks more than stamps.
Mine are mostly of German origin, post war to y2000.

A while ago I bought a collection of 20000+ postcards in Germany for my then small collection, I had the ability to arrange free shipping at the time
When the consignment arrived there were also thousands of extra collector cards, ETB, letters and stamps included. What I have discovered is that it is actually a collection of postmarks not postcards.
I discovered this when I decided to organise the postcards to sell the duplicates, there are duplicates to thousands of postcards, I thought to myself 'why so many duplicates?', that's when I realised it was a collection of postmarks, the postcards were just a method of obtaining them.
The person was buying stamps and cards and getting them cancelled, I have no idea how he managed such a vast amount, unless he worked at Deutsche Bundespost.
Here is a typical postcard reverse side ...

I would guess that it is hand cancelled. The stamp is cancelled plus a second postmark, this is typical of the postcards.

Attachment 47445

Part of the consignment that I am organising and sorting...

Attachment 47446...


I intend to list them as postcards, covers and postmarks.
There are enough duplicates to do this.
Might take a year or two though

[deanosaur1972]

Thanks deano
I think I am beginning to like postmarks more than stamps.
Mine are mostly of German origin, post war to y2000.

A while ago I bought a collection of 20000+ postcards in Germany for my then small collection, I had the ability to arrange free shipping at the time
When the consignment arrived there were also thousands of extra collector cards, ETB, letters and stamps included. What I have discovered is that it is actually a collection of postmarks not postcards.
I discovered this when I decided to organise the postcards to sell the duplicates, there are duplicates to thousands of postcards, I thought to myself 'why so many duplicates?', that's when I realised it was a collection of postmarks, the postcards were just a method of obtaining them.
The person was buying stamps and cards and getting them cancelled, I have no idea how he managed such a vast amount, unless he worked at Deutsche Bundespost.
Here is a typical postcard reverse side ...

I would guess that it is hand cancelled. The stamp is cancelled plus a second postmark, this is typical of the postcards.

Attachment 47445

Part of the consignment that I am organising and sorting...

Attachment 47446...


I intend to list them as postcards, covers and postmarks.
There are enough duplicates to do this.
Might take a year or two though

Slacker

Ok so it is a 150th anniversary special postmark of the submarine Brandtaucher. So classed as an event postmark I would guess.

The vast majority of collectors of those sort of modern postmarks on a postcard would want the front to have some sort of connection with the postmark. Does it?

Most of my research has been on the older postmarks.

There is an eBid buyer who may be interested in some of those as long as the front has a connection with the back (long standing customer) - can you pm me when you list this and I will e-mail him with a link to the listing. I am pretty sure he has purchased German event postmarks off me before. He won't mind me emailing him, in fact I am encouraged to do so.