The EU Referendum.

[astral276]

So, just for simplicity's sake, lets say we leave the EU?
what will be the real benefits?
If you don't mind me asking?

There are plenty of resources available, though you have to realise there is always going to be a bias in what each side claims and that nobody can see the future. It really comes down to your own gut feeling as to the right course to take.

You could look at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450 for opinions on both sides on some major topics. You may observe that the benefits on the 'leave' side are more for the people and the benefits on the 'remain' side are more for big business.

For me it comes down to a single issue, sovereignty. Everything else is subservient and dependent on that.

Out of the EU we can run the country in the best interests of the UK, rather than the one size fits all (though usually favouring Germany and France - seldom [if ever] the UK or other member nations) mish-mash of dictats from the EU.

In the EU we are on a relentless road towards a European superstate run for the benefit of bureaucrats and big business. The rights and needs of the people being continually eroded until we are no more than worker drones feeding our EU masters. Don't believe any assurances that the UK will not have to follow that same road; it is what the EU is all about. The UK would eventually cease to exist as a nation state.

I believe this is the one and only chance we will have to get out. If we vote 'remain' the EU will ensure we never get another chance. When you look at how far we have been subsumed without ever having a say in being a part of the EU just imagine how the pace will be ratcheted up following a 'remain' result.

There is a good chance the EU will eventually blow apart anyway. Undemocratic and oppressive structures usually do. When a ship sinks it is better to have swum away from it rather than to be tied to the mast.

[astral276]

As a footnote to the above...

I feel the referendum is being rushed in order to prevent proper debate of the issues involved, which would allow people to vote from a more informed position. I would prefer it to be held late this year or into next year.

[sidthelamp]

so we get out of the EU wow great , what next, will they revoke all that we dont like? how long will it actually take to leave once and if we vote out, ? HOW MANY EXCUSES will they come up with ! oh it takes a while to wind down are EU membership, will they secretly add more and more legislation while we wait? so thats the questions for the immediate aftermath of any out vote,

so we are left with rebuilding industry cant really see that being a problem, we should relie more on what we produce ,manufacture are own products again eat are home grown food again, what about the political system have we not seeen the lies and corruption even just over the EU, this will have to change, if we broadly say all political parties in the uk tow the same invisible line that non dare to step over, how can we change this? will we still allow big business to dominate policy in the uk? shall we still allow the political class to keep up there mantra of forsakening every thing else for PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFIT ? WILL WE REBUILD ARE WELFARE SYSTEM AGAIN so that all get a doctor when they need one, no two weeks waiting via a appointment , hospitals were you can be treated with respect, stop over crowding are country with millions of foreigners who are here to make a better living for themselves at the expense of the indigenous tribes, i want to see all the new drugs that are available "but we cant afford them" why cant we afford them because we spend the monies on wars in the middle east, then we have to feed hundreds of thousands of immigrants we displaced in the first place,

leaving the eu is just the start ,

[MPS16]

........I would prefer it to be held late this year or into next year.

And with the option of "Postal Votes" only being offered to a select and limited number of people with a very, very, good reason as to why they can't vote in person.

[astral276]

And with the option of "Postal Votes" only being offered to a select and limited number of people with a very, very, good reason as to why they can't vote in person.

Well, being a lazy sod, I usually vote by post. In this case I think I will do it in person, as I think postal votes have more opportunity to be 'tampered' with, lost if they don't suit the desired verdict, of 'stuffed' by vested interests.

[kazeran]

Thank you for that link Mel. I am now officially informed
So if we leave the EU does that mean I wont have to charge VAT for sales to Europe? just like worldwide export?

[astral276]

Thank you for that link Mel. I am now officially informed
So if we leave the EU does that mean I wont have to charge VAT for sales to Europe? just like worldwide export?

I would hope you research the issues a bit more, though getting impartial views may be, sadly, difficult. The link I gave was just an example - and was a bit old. Visiting some of the campaign websites may give you more up to date opinions.

I can't answer your VAT query (not an area I know much about). The UK has ceded some VAT matters to the EU which would be brought back when (ok, if) we leave. I would expect things would revert to as they were - whatever that was. The EU has worked themselves into so much of our sovereignty that it will take a lot of untangling. What agreements and treaties we and the EU choose to enter into in the event we exit would also determine how things resolve.

[HobbyHabitat]

I remember well the run up to us joining the common market, I worked in retail and made a point of asking customers if they would tell me which way they would vote. very few refused. nobody, repeat nobody said they would vote to join. I was amazed at the result to join and to this day cannot believe the "landslide" vote for joining. either many people lied to me, maybe only asking about 500 was too few a sample, or the result was fixed. I know what my money is on.
as has been mentioned earlier in these forums, there are a lot of voters who have never known life outside the eu. I have not yet heard anyone in the media explain what it was like pre common market days when we were (and did) successfully trade with the world. yes the country worked hard, but reaped the benefits.......maybe that is part of the problem, the eu generation are frightened of the unknown.

[westlondoncarparts]

With regard to post #48, this comment cannot be completely correct.

The UK had applied to join the European Economic Community in the 1960s but kept getting knocked back by President de Gaulle because he felt that the UK was too close politically to the USA and he did not want the further spread of American imperialism in Europe through the back door of British membership of the EEC.

The Conservative Party manifesto for the 1970 General Election stated that the Conservatives would seek negotiations for the UK’s entry into the EEC.

The Labour Party manifesto for the 1970 General Election also made reference to the Labour Party negotiating for the UK’s entry into the EEC.

The Liberal Party manifesto for the 1970 General Election also wanted EEC membership for the UK.

The Conservatives won the election. The subsequent decision to join the EEC was made in the UK Parliament and not in a referendum.

As all three main political parties were in favour of joining the EEC if suitable terms could be negotiated, the electorate were effectively denied any opportunity of voting against EEC membership in the 1970 General Election. It also meant that for any voter for whom joining the EEC membership was the only issue on which he or she wished to vote in that General Election, there were three main political parties all saying similar things about the EEC.

http://www.conservativemanifesto.com...anifesto.shtml

http://www.politicsresources.net/are...ab70.htm#world

http://www.libdemmanifesto.com/1970/...anifesto.shtml

The 1975 referendum took place after the UK had joined the EEC and asked voters whether or not they wished to remain within the EEC. When the referendum was announced, around one third of the electorate were in favour of membership and around two thirds against. By the time the referendum had taken place, the views of the electorate had flipped with around one third of the electorate against membership and around two thirds for membership.

There never was any landslide vote for joining the EEC because there never was any specific vote to join the EEC. The only vote that took place was about remaining within the EEC once the UK had already joined. And that was a landslide vote in favour.

Going off at a tangent, the UK economy was not doing so well before the UK joined the European Economic Community. The loss of the British Empire in the post World War 2 period as the colonies gained their independence meant that UK businesses lost their overseas protected markets and had to fight on more of a level playing field in international markets. They were not up to the job for three main reasons – lack of investment, poor quality management, and poor industrial relations. The economic reason for applying to join the EEC (in an age where customs taxes on imports around the world was generally higher than today) was so that the UK could have customs free access to the EEC market which would make it easier to sell our goods and services there. However, what happened in the 1970s immediately after joining the EEC was that continental companies in the EEC with better track records on investment, better quality management and better industrial relations were able to make significant inroads into the UK domestic market at the expense of UK manufacturers.

[sidthelamp]

With regard to post #48, this comment cannot be completely correct.

The UK had applied to join the European Economic Community in the 1960s but kept getting knocked back by President de Gaulle because he felt that the UK was too close politically to the USA and he did not want the further spread of American imperialism in Europe through the back door of British membership of the EEC.

The Conservative Party manifesto for the 1970 General Election stated that the Conservatives would seek negotiations for the UK’s entry into the EEC.

The Labour Party manifesto for the 1970 General Election also made reference to the Labour Party negotiating for the UK’s entry into the EEC.

The Liberal Party manifesto for the 1970 General Election also wanted EEC membership for the UK.

The Conservatives won the election. The subsequent decision to join the EEC was made in the UK Parliament and not in a referendum.

As all three main political parties were in favour of joining the EEC if suitable terms could be negotiated, the electorate were effectively denied any opportunity of voting against EEC membership in the 1970 General Election. It also meant that for any voter for whom joining the EEC membership was the only issue on which he or she wished to vote in that General Election, there were three main political parties all saying similar things about the EEC.

http://www.conservativemanifesto.com...anifesto.shtml

http://www.politicsresources.net/are...ab70.htm#world

http://www.libdemmanifesto.com/1970/...anifesto.shtml

The 1975 referendum took place after the UK had joined the EEC and asked voters whether or not they wished to remain within the EEC. When the referendum was announced, around one third of the electorate were in favour of membership and around two thirds against. By the time the referendum had taken place, the views of the electorate had flipped with around one third of the electorate against membership and around two thirds for membership.

There never was any landslide vote for joining the EEC because there never was any specific vote to join the EEC. The only vote that took place was about remaining within the EEC once the UK had already joined. And that was a landslide vote in favour.

Going off at a tangent, the UK economy was not doing so well before the UK joined the European Economic Community. The loss of the British Empire in the post World War 2 period as the colonies gained their independence meant that UK businesses lost their overseas protected markets and had to fight on more of a level playing field in international markets. They were not up to the job for three main reasons – lack of investment, poor quality management, and poor industrial relations. The economic reason for applying to join the EEC (in an age where customs taxes on imports around the world was generally higher than today) was so that the UK could have customs free access to the EEC market which would make it easier to sell our goods and services there. However, what happened in the 1970s immediately after joining the EEC was that continental companies in the EEC with better track records on investment, better quality management and better industrial relations were able to make significant inroads into the UK domestic market at the expense of UK manufacturers.

that was a balanced and unprejudiced post Robert