The EU Referendum.

[sidthelamp]

With regard to the cost of an egg and bacon breakfast, the EU does not impose export tariffs. If any tariffs were to be imposed that would increase the cost of such a breakfast, they would be import tariffs imposed by the British Government and not by the EU.

With regard to the EU having killed off the livelihoods of many British farmers, can somebody direct us to truthful information about this please? I can understand the impact of the recent abandonment of price setting in the dairy industry but apart from that was not aware of any other significant problem coming from the EU. I always thought that the biggest problem for the British farming sector came from the abuse of purchasing power that is concentrated in the hands of a few very large supermarket chains which is nothing to do with the EU.

Limiting the power size of electrical appliances will have an impact on energy usage across the EU and subsequently a marginal positive impact upon global climate change.

Like many families in the UK, my family had people who fought in the military.

Although they are no longer here and cannot speak for themselves, they did fight for freedom.

I am sure that they would be appalled at the lies that have been promulgated about the EU for years. I am sure also that they would be appalled at the conduct of both sides in the current Referendum debate and the way that neither side is bringing all the issues into the debate and the way that both sides are spinning and misusing statistics.

The people who choose victimhood as a way of life and distort every interpretation of the EU into their vision of victimhood are entitled to do so in a democracy. However, what they show – together with the leading lights on the Remain side – is that the biggest enemy of the British nation is not the EU but some of the British people themselves.

It is quite clear that the military personnel who lost their lives in previous military action lost their lives in vain because this Referendum campaign is being driven by people on both sides of the debate who think nothing of distorting truth to suit their own ends. All that matters is spinning falsehoods in the hope that the electorate can be conned to vote their way. Democracy gives people the opportunity to behave well and also to behave badly. A lot of people in this Referendum debate are not taking any kind of personal responsibility for their actions. Whichever way the vote goes later this month, we are not only going to have to deal with whatever the ongoing relationship with the EU becomes, but we are also going to have to confront the breakdown in integrity and the rottenness of some of our politics that we now have in UK society.

il just take the one point for now.

do you realise 2000watts and above VCs are not extravagant toys for boys or women for that matter , they served a purpose of doing a job fast in one pass, if you ban a appliance that works in the above way and replace it with a underpowered one, you defeat the object and have to do it twice using more than double the power of the banned option, the question you should be asking yourself is are the eu officials that stupid they did not realise this, or yet again is there a hidden motive

[sidthelamp]

you also have no idea about farming,

a farmer who receives SFP is then caught in a system that drives prices up across the board, his costs of machinery, feed, are inflated because the suppliers know he gets SFP , the produce is similar inflated to us , and the export abroad, the price of land is super inflated and keeps young aspiring farmers out of the game,

a more sinister consequence is the conditions of SFP, its not just a simple matter of giving a farmer a cheque once a year, plus there paid a year in arrears , the cash part, varies from year to year so they cant plan ahead because they simply dont know what there gonna get, its also vastly unfair when compaired with upland against lowland farmers,

a bit more

the bureaucracy around farming is crazy

3 or 4 visits a year from box tickers who go round the whole farm , looking at every thing , if for instance you have a tree in a field your grant is reduced, but you can fill in another form to claim a different grant for the same tree, if you have a few logs in the corner of a field you can forget claiming on that area for that year , even if you move the logs,

to move a cow from one holding to another means you have to fill in a form and have a movement licence, even if the holding is next door to yours, same goes for taking live stock to market , if you need to move them more than forty miles another type of licence and form are needed, restrictions on what you can and cant do at certain times of the year even though this contradicts generations of knowledge.

all this has to be paid for by the tax payer , it keeps bureaucrats in a job in europe who are self serving, the rules are supposed to be fair across the eu but there loaded in favour of any particular country or countries , eg new members to the eu will find the market will be steared there way at the expense of established members who have to adjust yet again, eu farming is bureaucratic, a false market , costly and anti competitive,

[westlondoncarparts]

Is that why Tony is going around counting trees?

[sidthelamp]

"It is quite clear that the military personnel who lost their lives in previous military action lost their lives in vain because this Referendum campaign is being driven by people on both sides of the debate who think nothing of distorting truth to suit their own ends. All that matters is spinning falsehoods in the hope that the electorate can be conned to vote their way. Democracy gives people the opportunity to behave well and also to behave badly. A lot of people in this Referendum debate are not taking any kind of It is quite clear that the military personnel who lost their lives in previous military action lost their lives in vain because this Referendum campaign is being driven by people on both sides of the debate who think nothing of distorting truth to suit their own ends. All that matters is spinning falsehoods in the hope that the electorate can be conned to vote their way. Democracy gives people the opportunity to behave well and also to behave badly. A lot of people in this Referendum debate are not taking any kind of personal responsibility for their actions. Whichever way the vote goes later this month, we are not only going to have to deal with whatever the ongoing relationship with the EU becomes, but we are also going to have to confront the breakdown in integrity and the rottenness of some of our politics that we now have in UK society.. Whichever way the vote goes later this month, we are not only going to have to deal with whatever the ongoing relationship with the EU becomes, but we are also going to have to confront the breakdown in integrity and the rottenness of some of our politics that we now have in UK society."

just exactly what are you saying here, people who lost there lives during the 2WW did not lose them in vain they fought to free europe from the tyranny of one country trying to turn europe into a super state , distorting the truth , i dont think the leave campaign are distorting the truth not in a historical sense , those that base there argument on the eu being undemocratic are quite right as i shown in some detail, that is enough by its self to question the deceit and lies and manipulation the british have been fed over the eu, by elected politicians in the uk being told what to say by the eu, this familiar theme of yours and others distorting the truth , i dont think any one is distorting , rather the leave camp are rather restrained , and the remain camp are vague bordering on amature auto suggestion, eg, "it could possible lead to" " it will effect the way we " "we will lose x amount" " it might be bad for the next xx years" and so on ,
with no substance to there ambiguous suggestions,

i do think your right about uk politics , it has been lead astray by greed and corruption , with no little part played by the eu, after all they have been behind the curtain pulling the strings for over 50 years

[westlondoncarparts]

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/sep/22/english-farmland-prices-double-in-five-years

Now there are some hard facts to debate.

Who are the culprits behind this?

How much is due to EU subsidies?

How much is due to asset speculation and inflation resulting from quantitative easing?

How much is due to the actions of British purchasers?

What is the UK Government doing about this?

If we started to pick these sorts of problems apart properly, we would have a much better quality EU debate.

[sidthelamp]

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/sep/22/english-farmland-prices-double-in-five-years

Now there are some hard facts to debate.

Who are the culprits behind this?

How much is due to EU subsidies?

How much is due to asset speculation and inflation resulting from quantitative easing?

How much is due to the actions of British purchasers?

What is the UK Government doing about this?

If we started to pick these sorts of problems apart properly, we would have a much better quality EU debate.

of course you will get speculators, not to the extent were it effects prices in the short term, most farm land thats sold does not go on the open market, but you will get a old farm house with 5 acres for sale flooding the market prime farm land remains just that, the land is sold to a farm the house is sold off with a bit of land to the good life people

because of the grant system directly, farms have to go big to survive, the more land the more grant, because of the fixed market and low prices , the more stock you need to survive , the more land you need to produce winter feed,

it is the eu directly responsible because it drives the whole agri market

How much is due to the actions of British purchasers , not specific enough


the dead link you gave to the guardian article is a joke, it does not mention at all the fact , that the eu SFP and or CAP go hand in hand with land so prime farm land will double in price because its directly proportional to eu grants, nor does it mention grants are paid per acre not per head , no wonder land owners sit on the land and not farm it, as the article points out, as i have said already young farmers who want to farm cant, because of the artificially high price of land , caused by the grant system,

[sidthelamp]

if you remove the grant system over say 5 years, you will see a immediate drop in land prices, encouraging buyers who want to farm, even if the grant system was reversed to what it used to be , per head, it would encourage more farming , and reduce prices through the whole spectrum, the eu grant system is destroying farming in this country

[tony41]

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[tony41]

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[emmily121]

Tony, I doubt if anyone other than yourself took any notice of the counting trees comment, it was one of those posts that are best ignored.
Can you 2 please call a truce, getting personal risks this thread getting deleted and I don't think any of us want that to happen.