The EU Referendum.

[sidthelamp]

This whole EU Referendum matter is descending into a farce. Nigel Farage and UKIP have been peddling untruths about the EU for years. Now that there is going to be a Referendum, the Yes people are accentuating negatives and not giving much of a positive case for remaining in the EU. Until advocates of Out or In start to bring some reality and truth to the debate, we will end up with the farce of a large chunk of the British electorate voting on one of the most important issues that could face us without knowing the facts and making their decisions based upon hearsay and half baked myths.

The issue about treason has no basis. We had an election campaign in 1970 in which all three major political parties said that they would seek entry into the European Economic Community. Edward Heath’s Government brought to the Westminster Parliament the terms and conditions it had negotiated to sign the Treaty of Rome which established the European Economic Community and around 300 hours of often very heated debate followed in the Parliament. The Westminster Parliament approved the terms and conditions of EEC membership. The ensuing European Communities Act 1972 was signed by the Queen. In 1975, the EEC Referendum result showed around two thirds of the voters voting to stay in the EEC. There was no treason against the Queen or against the UK.

One of the worst lies is that back in the 1970s we joined a trade market only and that all the rest of what the EU is about now is something that has been done to the British against our will and without our agreement. The truth is that joining the EEC was not just about joining a trade market, it was also about joining a Community to build a better Europe, a community in which the UK was a stakeholder.

The Treaty of Rome was signed by Edward Heath, the British Prime Minister, in Brussels on 22 January 1972. We became full members on 1st January 1973. Three summits of EEC leaders were held between the UK signing the Treaty of Rome and the UK Referendum on EEC membership in 1975. Links to web pages with information about the summits are given below. The subject matter of the summits included economic and monetary and political union and other matters beyond what would be expected of a trade market only, and these were matters that were very much in the public forum of debate in the run up to the 1975 Referendum. This shows very clearly how Nigel Farage has misled the UK electorate with false statements. He is entitled to wish to leave the EU and to encourage other people with the same desire if he so wishes but he should stick to the truth and not make things up.

In October 1972 the first summit of the enlarged European Economic Community was held, part of the extract of the communiqué at the end of the summit being given at:
http://ec.europa.eu/dorie/fileDownlo...&cardId=203015

Other information about the summits can be found as follows.

Paris Summit in October 1972
http://aei.pitt.edu/1919/1/paris_1972_preparations.pdf

Copenhagen Summit in December 1973
http://ec.europa.eu/dorie/fileDownlo...&cardId=203013

Paris Summit in December 1974
http://fc95d419f4478b3b6e5f-3f71d0fe...C0350A12BC.pdf

At this stage in the Referendum proceedings, it is not unrealistic to expect that both the Out and In camps should be able to give the British electorate some idea of the economic impact of Brexit upon companies by company size, industry sector, and so on. Some companies will benefit from Brexit, others will suffer. The British need some idea of the impact on British companies overall. Both Nigel Farage and David Cameron have had years to get such an assessment done so that the British electorate can make informed decisions. I am sure that we all have a better chance of winning one of the National Lottery games than getting sensible information about this from either side. And until they have done such basic work, a lot of their utterances on the economic impact of Brexit will be not much more than hot air.

i dont agree heres part of a post i made earlier,



the country did not knowingly vote for a political union in 1975, this is the question and answers available on the actual voting slip,

The question to be asked to the British electorate that was set out within the legislation was:
Do you think that the United Kingdom should remain part of the European Community (the Common Market)?
permitting a simple YES / NO answer.




as you can see the question was loaded in away that people would assume they were voting on some grand international Saturday market ."


your post assumes working people in the uk had the privilege to all the eu negotiations ,indeed very few politicians new the detail , the detail has only come to light after historians have gone over the negotiations in later years, you say there is no case for treason, would deliberately withholding information about a political union in a referendum thats sold to the people as a common market, with no mention of political union be treason , also withholding the very same information form the people who represent us, be classed as treason,


maybe as you live in london you have not seen the mess the eu has caused in the farming world, driving frm against farm so they can compete in a ever decreasing market, because of eu quoters , you can not deny they introduced quoters which is a form of control giving the bulk to eastern european farms, as one example, so much for a common market, at the expense of uk farmers. my last post gave an example yet again of another type of eu quoter in the steel industry not only has it all but destroyed the uk steel industry in the last couple of months, the steel thats being imported is from china, not even in the eu!!!! , how about the slate industry china imports have destroyed this industry too, all because of the eu s common market,

theres some hard facts for you,

if you would like some more i can fill page after page of how the eu as directly destroyed british manufacturing, farming,extraction industry's, this is the first time since the romans left, we have not been able to defend are selves, i think people like you who try to defend the eu are having a laugh,

[astral276]

Meanwhile, Mr Cameron faces a fresh row over migration as the EU’s leadership prepares to publish plans that will radically curtain Britain’s ability to deport asylum seekers.

The European Commission will within the next fortnight unveil plans to scrap asylum rules that allow Britain to deport around 1,000 failed claimants a year under a 'first country' rule.

The Commission wants to replace the Dublin procedure, which obliges asylum seekers to stay in the first country they arrive in, with a centralised agency that divides up claims, the FT reported last night.

So now we are to be told which and how many migrants we must accept.

[buttons-and-bows]

So In other words they can change things when it suits them but we have to toe the line and cannot do what we want in our own country.

[astral276]

So In other words they can change things when it suits them but we have to toe the line and cannot do what we want in our own country.

'Twas always so. France and Germany, in particular, just ignore EU treaties/law when it suits them - but woe betide any other country that does.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d08dc262-b...#axzz42D3Wx23l

The 'thinking' behind it: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...X2NNgCnp7YuPkg

(PDF file - starting around page 54 but gets to the Dublin bit at page 58)

Basically another go at the already failed quota system.

[astral276]

I wonder if anyone has made a compilation video of Cameron disappearing off camera.

He rolls up to reporters, delivers his sound bite, and then rapidly exits stage left/right (Snagglepuss reincarnate?) before anyone can question/challenge him on what he has just said. The sooner he is gone the better.

[yellerbelly]

So In other words they can change things when it suits them but we have to toe the line and cannot do what we want in our own country.

That just about sums it up.

I was reading last week that the UK along with France and Germany are one of the biggest contributors to the EU but that France and Germany take more out than the UK, I also read that the UK could have applied to the EU for help for the victims of the floods but chose not to do so.

I have been unable to catch up with all the budget today but what I did hear was that he hopes to have a new rail link across London and HS3 is also on the cards, while other parts of the country have poor public transport links especially rural areas. At the weekend I read that over the past few years council tax has been rising steadily while London has remained about the same and seen very little increases, why?? because the rest of the country have to send the council tax collected to central government and they decide what we can have back, in other words 'here's your pocket money, don't spend it all at once and save some for a rainy day'. Cameron and Osborne need to spend more time in the areas they are depriving not just a fleeting visit. I only commented last week that the only time I see police these days is when passing them on the road never on the streets as a deterrent. History repeating itself the king, Lords and church collecting the taxes while the peasants who do the work are deprived and no Robin Hood in sight.

On another note our GDP is lower than it was but it is better than other EU members which means we could be made to contribute more to the EU, ( Sorry cannot remember where I read that last week. We need to vote OUT

Received this into my email today from a friend.

Click this link to sign the petition "Use 3 separate independent organisations to count the EU referendum votes"

https://petition.parliament.uk/signa...M7pjSeR313Gjpx
Also received this into my email today for anyone who might be interested.

[tony41]

Received this into my email today from a friend.

Click this link to sign the petition "Use 3 separate independent organisations to count the EU referendum votes"

https://petition.parliament.uk/signa...M7pjSeR313Gjpx
Also received this into my email today for anyone who might be interested.

I had a look at this petition just to see what it said because I thought i wouldn't agree with it. At the top of the page was a note that I had already signed this petition. I most definitely have not done so. Is this another dirty trick from the Brexit brigade?

[astral276]

I had a look at this petition just to see what it said because I thought i wouldn't agree with it. At the top of the page was a note that I had already signed this petition. I most definitely have not done so. Is this another dirty trick from the Brexit brigade?

Says I have signed it as well. I hadn't; but when I refreshed the page it changed to I hadn't signed it. Looks like it is seeing a previous petition signing and wrongly displaying on initial page load.

[Salomina27]

Whatever it say or doesn't say I don't trust this government one jolt, or previous ones come to that, especially since Blair but it IS important this is done fairly and whatever means that takes I'm for it, but that probably won't happen either. I still don't trust the results of the general election last year and there are questions around THAT, votes going missing, taking much longer to count etc, if they can find a way to doctor the figures to suit they WILL, there is no democracy any more sadly or very little left..

[astral276]

We can now call off the referendum. Our EU masters are to allow us to remove VAT from female sanitary products (commonly known as 'the tampon tax') - our sovereignty is restored (?)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35834142