ouija boards

[damian_steele]

It's not a personal matter Damian, don't flatter yourself into thinking this is all about you, one hypocrite is as bad as the next.

You're quite right about that. It's just a shame that you fail to admit to being one when it is so obvious to those who read your posts.

It's just that some people do notice you know. And some people will say it.

And each time I say it, you deny it.

I've not given up pretending to read the thread

Oh, right, you are still pretending to read the thread.

my comment ("whine about being constantly belittled" - remember?) was relevent to your comment ("constantly belittled" - remember?) about the subject of the thread, get it?

No, your comment was a personal attack against me and had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of the thread.

I know that nobody can ever win a situation against someone like you, who believe they are right all the time about everything

It's not about winning. It's about being able to state my opinion without people like you making general and sweeping statements which accuse me of "not having a clue".

I choose not to believe.
I choose to believe that many people are easily swayed and many more can be made to believe in things which did not occur in the way they think they did. Such a common trait is the stock-in-trade of every illusionist and con man in the world.

It's exactly the same as those people who constantly believe they've seen UFOs. Whilst a tiny minority may indeed see something which cannot be easily explained, the vast and overwhelming majority deliberately choose to interpret what they have seen as being a UFO and therefore will neither seek an alternative explanation or accept that any such alternative could exist. That is closed mindedness and that is exactly what happens with Ouija boards 99.99% of the time.

Chiquita has already stated that Ouija boards have no power - a comment which echoes what I posted some time ago - yet you still try to slate me for saying otherwise. I don't see you telling her that she is wrong.

Every single published result of every single scientific test has stated that Ouija boards have no power. Yet do I see you even attempting a logical, rational or reasonable defense? No, all you do is have a go at me about it, because that is all you are capable of or willing to do.

Despite your constantly accusing me of being closed minded and not believing in anything I have not personally witnessed, you offer absolutely nothing to support your assertion that Ouija boards work. All you do is prove you suffer from exactly what you accuse me of in your failure to admit that you could be completely wrong.

[chiquita]

Oh dear! All of this negative talk is really not doing anyone any good. And it will just keep going to and fro.

Just out of curiosity Damian, have you ever tried to seek out any proof of your own? Have you been to a seance, spiritualist church, medium, etc? Or do you not wish to test out your theory?

[h1r3z]

It's not about winning. It's about me "not having a clue".

I choose not to believe that people believe in things. Such a common trait of every con man in the world.

It's the tiny mind 99.99% of the time.

Despite being closed minded and not believing in anything... I offer absolutely nothing. All you do is suffer me be completely wrong.

Hey, I can see the attraction of this - I'm not up to your standard I admit, but give me a little while and I'll be able to out-dissect you before you know it.

[h1r3z]

Oh dear! All of this negative talk is really not doing anyone any good. And it will just keep going to and fro.

No it wont. I wont carry this on any further with him now.

A donkey doesn't know it's a donkey.

[damian_steele]

Just out of curiosity Damian, have you ever tried to seek out any proof of your own? Have you been to a seance, spiritualist church, medium, etc? Or do you not wish to test out your theory?

Yes. It was so obviously fake that I got booted out for laughing and told not to come back. I will not waste money paying for sessions with so-called professionals who are nothing more than con men (women?).

I have also read the results of every scientific report or study that I can find. Not even one of them has ever even come close to agreeing with those who say such things work.

However, I'll change my beliefs on the subject when I see a group of blindfolded, randomly picked people produce a sensible message or produce an effect which can be verified as not being intentionally caused by one of the people present. This, of course, will not happen as every other time it has been tried it resulted in absolute failure on the part of the blindfolded group, thereby proving that any messages being spelled out are as a result of the people involved moving the pointer and not because any external spirit or force moved them to move it.

[AllThingsSparkly]

My late father had a board hanging in front room and i have always been fascinated with things like this. My mum told me that she had a dabble with a group of friends and her late dad came through. She didnt believe it at first until he told her message and his full name, dob and the date he passed away. She has never used on since. People have their own beliefs, many dont believe what they dont understand. I feel that i am quite open minded, i have been to mediums and some were on the ball and told me things that no one else knew. People will prob scoff at this but its their opinion and everyone is entitled to it. Faye

[chiquita]

Yes. It was so obviously fake that I got booted out for laughing and told not to come back. I will not waste money paying for sessions with so-called professionals who are nothing more than con men (women?).

I have also read the results of every scientific report or study that I can find. Not even one of them has ever even come close to agreeing with those who say such things work.

However, I'll change my beliefs on the subject when I see a group of blindfolded, randomly picked people produce a sensible message or produce an effect which can be verified as not being intentionally caused by one of the people present. This, of course, will not happen as every other time it has been tried it resulted in absolute failure on the part of the blindfolded group, thereby proving that any messages being spelled out are as a result of the people involved moving the pointer and not because any external spirit or force moved them to move it.

I would be very naive to say that there weren't fakes about. As with anything else that can be a money-spinner, mediumship has its share of frauds. Not every medium I have seen has been genuine. But some have, and given me details that nobody else has known. Hence why I persevered with it, and eventually had contact that involved nobody else.
Anyone with an interest should not be put off by fakes. Choose a medium that has favourable reviews, or has been recommended.
Scientific reports and studies: How can you obtain solid proof from such things? Spirits are ethereal, they cannot be lured, tested or measured. If you rely purely on these results you will never gain any insight.
You say you'll change your beliefs when you see a group of random blindfolded people come up with something sensible. But would you? Or would you say there was another way for them to gain the knowledge? Some people will not be convinced no matter what, and you may be one of them. Your admission of laughing out loud and being booted out says a lot! You obviously went with the intention of ridiculing it, not with an open mind. What would you say if a spirit materialised in front of you? That you were hallucinating, or probably coming down with something?

[damian_steele]

Oh, come off it. If you'd been there you'd have laughed too. The old woman came out dressed like a cross between a pantomime dame and the cliched crystal ball reader from the end of the pier. She told everyone to close their eyes whilst she went into her "trance" but she kept squinting around to see if anyone was watching her. She even went to far as to kick the table and pretend it was moved by a spirit - even though it was blatantly obvious from the movement of almost her whole body that she'd booted it. Add to that the fact that she demanded everyone fill in a questionaire beforehand - a questionaire which included far too many personal questions about friends, family and all sorts (like she could make it any more obvious!).

So, the result of it all was almost a foregone conclusion for any normal, sane person and yet you think that my laughing "says a lot" as though you think you know better or are in a position to judge me.

Well, no matter. None of this makes any difference to what I think about ouija boards or the vast majority of people who readily fool themselves into thinking they saw or felt mysterious forces at work. No doubt these are the same people who are beloved by the horror film makers, for they are so easily spooked and so easily made to feel "creepy", that the film makers' job is made so much easier.

[chiquita]

My apologies to you Damian for saying you shouldn't have laughed. You obviously went to a comedy show and not a serious medium! I've never heard of behaviour such as that, questionaires, booting tables, etc. Are you sure it was meant to be taken seriously? That kind of thing NEVER happens with anyone genuine. But I'm surprised you stopped after seeing that farce. Where on earth was she showing. surely not at an established spiritualist revue?
Lets get one thing straight here...I am NOT judging you or anyone else, so get that out of your mind. Your beliefs are your own, no matter to me.
Yet you say I am among those who 'readily fool themselves' into imagining I saw something. Well I am no fool, I am not crazy nor do I imagine anything. I see what I see. Thats it. No excuses to you or anyone.

[damian_steele]

Well I am no fool, I am not crazy nor do I imagine anything. I see what I see. Thats it. No excuses to you or anyone.

I agree that you can be 100% sincere about believing what you appear to see. So are the majority of people who report seeing or hearing ghost, seeing UFOs, feeling strange or spooky sensations in old houses and so on.

However, given how easy it is to fool the human senses - either our own through convincing ourselves we saw what we wanted to see, or fooling someone else's either deliberately (with cold reading for example) or acidentally, I still can't agree with you about this.

During the early 90's I was a co editor/writer/publisher of an electronic magazine about UFOs and other strange phenomena. As part of that I spoke to, corresponded with or otherwise heard from many people who genuinely believed that had seen something not of this earth. In every single verifiable* case the sighting turned out to be something perfectly normal. But in every single case the person involved didn't want to hear that; they wanted to believe and that's exactly what they did do whether anyone else believed them or not. We even had one guy who was convinced he had UFOs flying over his house each night because he'd seen the lights. What he didn't accept was that he lived on the flight path for Exeter airport!

(* Verfifiable means a sighting that is fresh enough to gather information about. This information includes weather patterns, time of year, time of day, local events such as helicopter or air balloon flights, times of laser lightshows, times and paths of local aircraft, distance to commercial or private airfields, distance to areas popular with kite flyers etc etc etc.)

The long and the short of it is I have seen far too many people who refuse to accept any other posibility for what they believe they saw, heard or felt. Add to that the total lack of scientific proof of any sort to support the claims of believers and I see no reason to change my mind.

What I do know is that no matter how many times I make logical arguments to the contrary, you and others will continue to believe. So, enjoy.