US Bail Out on Wall Street

[MrsMcfarlane]

This is just a numpty observation .

If the US government had $700 billion dollars available to bail out the banks, then surely it must still be available to bail out the folks who are defaulting on their mortgages ?

Surely, it would be a more reassuring solution to begin at the grass roots of the immediate problem ?

I can understand the folks in the US being suspicious of where the $700 billion is going to end up, when they are struggling to pay back debts and having to read in the media about the kind of money these banking guys actually earn/earned. ?

[damian_steele]

Damian, with all due respect, what is happening here in the U.S. is much like what happened here in the late 1840s and early 1850s. Except the Gov't didn't feel it was necessary to 'bail out the Rich'. The thought never entered the Gov't's mind unlike now where our politicians tremble at the thought of upsetting the status quo. Unlike yourself I don't believe this is the beginning of the end. Unless you are a major Banker or have millions tied up in mortgages I believe when the dust settles you will still be around....like me and none the worse for wear.

You may well be right. Hopefully this will all blow over and everybody will be fine. However, that doesn't rule out the possibility that you are wrong and a lot of people are going to be very badly effected. It just depends on how far this goes and for how long. We are already seeing some of the early results with many businesses either going bust or collectively shedding thousands of jobs. People are already losing their homes and livelihoods. Yes, we've been at this stage before and things may not go much further, but then again they might. Wearing blinders and ignoring the possibilities isn't going to help anyone. Recognising the potential problems, planning to deal with them and then getting on with life is far more sensible.

So, whilst you are entitled to your own opinion, I would appreciate it if you didn't make negative comments about mine.

[savagebtings]

What i find amazing, is that the U.K. government could'nt fund police pay rises, yet they suddenly find billions to throw around at banks.

Our taxes rise and rise, is this where it's all going? Into failed Ceo's pockets?

I see the Spanish now own half of England as well.
Sir Francis Drake must be turning in his grave....

[damian_steele]

The bottom line is that I don't have a doomsayers attitude towards life
that visualizes catastrophes around every corner without examining the evidence.

So by inference you are stating that I do.
You have absolutely no idea of what my situation is or why I choose to acknowledge that the worst could happen whilst hoping for the best.

People have been losing jobs by the thousands here long before banks started to go belly up. I personally don't know about the job situation for you Brits but as an American I believe it is time for us to take care of ourselves and let the World handle its own problems. Feeding billions into the mortgage greed screw up ( so that the rest of the World does not go belly up ) is not the job of the American taxpayer.

At what point have I said otherwise or tried to claim that job losses were solely caused by the banking collapse?

The point I have made is that there is a potential for things to get far worse and for the consequences to last for a long time. If you want to ignore that, that's up to you but kindly stop trying to belittle my point of view.

[canuckbid]

Well talk is cheap. I'll throw in 2bits worth. Bin Laden must be jumping for joy after 911 and ole bush figured he had to kick some *ss. Saddam had nothing to do with it but he was a rogue. Look how much money has been spent over there now! Should have just sent in a commado squad and dealt with him and left. Binny is still on the loose. If big brother just closed down all the military bases around the world, look how much they could save. Quit letting the Asains ship their stuff to the USA , and people would buy off their neighbor. Do the foriegn car makers have the same pension plan as the USA car makers? I rather doubt it. How can the North American manufactors compete with them? I don't care if they make a better product or not. Put the borders up around north america and save alot of cash. Yes they have a problem with the Mexicans but they are only looking for a better life not wanting to wreck the place like terrorists. Let the other countries sort out their own mess and we'll deal with whoever is in charge. They don't have oil, well they have to go back to horses then. Planet earth would like that and we might slow down the icecap melt. Being the world policemen costs a fortune. How many appreciate it? They always trash talk big brother but when there is a problem they are all asking, where is the USA? How many countries support the fight against terrorism now? They forget who came and saved them in WWll quickly. A few terror acts in their country and they go home. We don't have much of an army in Canada but I'm glad we are doing what we can to fight the terrorists and our way of life. Spend the money on the star wars defense program so we can shoot down the paki's missles when they try to launch. Or the north Koreans. Backwards thinking people anyway. Like I said my opinion means nothing and totally unrealistic but heck let's keep the forum going! I'm getting really really low in the trenches now to duck all the bullets. I'm sure glad the US is big brother! Everyone wants the American dream. They could still have it if they deal the cards the right way.

Yes I know this will do nothing for my global sales but I'm not selling anything anyway. I'm back to work at my real job in a few days and you'll all be spared my postings. lol Well, alot less of them anyway.

[VandTnut]

Well - - - the European and Asian markets did not go into complete collapse. Wall Street recovered about half of what was lost yesterday in the panic selloff (and the smart money made a killing once again). As one of the stock show guys says "nobody ever made a dime by panicking".
Also revealed today was the provision buried in the defeated bill that foreign banks would be able to sell their "toxic debt" to their American subsidiaries and those subsidiaries would then immediately be able to unload that debt on to the US Treasury.
There have been some very well reasoned comments made here.
The world as we know it is not ending. It is looking a little unsteady on its' legs however due to a credit binge that has gone on far to long at all levels. I personally am in favor of going back to hard money currency. It would put the brakes on many of the excesses and attempts to manipulate currencies that have occurred in recent years.
I recently explained how a hard currency monetary system works to several people at our local Post Office when one of the clerks and a customer got into a conversation about silver certificates (for our brit. cousins, and younger americans these are "greenbacks" that could actually be exchanged for the equivalent dollar amount of silver at any US Treasury Depository).
Much to think about from what I've read here. Have a good evening all.
ED

[TiasTreasures]

As Mark Levin wrote today:
"Incidentally, if you want to buy a home or car today you can. And if your credit is decent, you can get loans at a good rate. Last week we were told that if a deal was not struck by last Friday, our economy would collapse. It has not. That is not to say the evidence of economic troubles or worse should be ignored. It is to say that now is a time for reasoned decisions based on tried and true principles, not for abandoning them. "

So true. California has been especially hard-hit by the mortgage crisis because homes here have been so overpriced. Yet my neighbors, my children, and my friends are not concerned. None of us are in danger of losing our jobs and income. We bought homes we could afford, will continue to pay our bills, and can get along without any new toys, so the credit crisis won't affect us. Our retirement funds are taking a hit right now, but we can wait for the stocks to rise again (they always do). I've ridden out two recessions and came out fine by not panicking.

One of my friends is a real estate agent. She says the sensible people who sat on the sidelines during the housing bubble are looking for homes to buy now that prices have dropped. They have down payments, saved while they were waiting. They won't have any trouble getting loans.

[soulscape100]

If my numbers are right (and I'm pretty good at math) this bailout would cost around $2,500 for each adult in the United States. Most of that would go to investors and executives who are leaving the companies they ruined. The investors are mostly big organizations who should have known they were taking a risk when they bought the junk. I do NOT think we should do this, let the rich go down. The previous bailouts didn't stop the slide, neither will this one.

We are in a recession, and it may affect the whole world, but I think we've been sucked dry already. We can't save the world by ourselves. I've lived through two recessions, we'll recover.

I wholeheartedly agree. Let the financial institutions sort themselves out, which they will. The strong well managed will stand and the weak mis-managed will fall. And we will all be stronger for it in the long run. We will all feel the impact, bailout or not, let's not reward the greedy short term investment bankers for their money grabbing self motivated incompetance.

[poppa501]

Got this e-mail today. Sounds like a plan to me.

Think About it!

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It Dividend."

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( 'vote buy' ) economic incentive that is being proposed
by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can 'never work.'

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC

And remember, this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Think about it!

[kengillam]

Sounds like a good idea.... bet it won't happen though