dc puts that lilll cretin putin in is place

[westlondoncarparts]

The David Cameron first line of attack in resolving the Syrian chemical weapons issue was to recall the British Parliament to discuss the military option without even knowing who was responsible for the chemical weapons atrocity. It is quite likely that had the British Parliament supported him, Syria would now have been bombed and the conflicts in the area exacerbated by many degrees.

Today’s announcement of the results of the discussions in Zurich are the results of President Putin’s problem solving approach.

With regard to who is putting whom in his place, even though not exactly on the same subject matter, it seems more likely to me that President Putin has put David Cameron in his place. Although chemical weapons are just one of many issues that are part of the Syrian situation, President Putin has achieved a better solution with the chemical weapons issue than David Cameron. David Cameron’s approach was to try to manage symptoms through the brute force that President Putin referred to rather than solve the cause behind the symptoms. The Syrian chemicals weapons stockpile was built up as the Syrian nation’s response to the threat of nuclear attack from Israel. The Russians have achieved something very considerable to get the Syrians to give this up.

President Putin’s reputational status relative to the western powers is likely to be enhanced further when Pravda publishes Senator John McCain’s response to President Putin’s article in the New York Times. This time it will not be David Cameron putting President Putin in his place but a former contender for the presidency of the USA putting President Putin in his place – as the man of the moment.

[MPS16]

....The Syrian chemicals weapons stockpile was built up as the Syrian nation’s response to the threat of nuclear attack from Israel. The Russians have achieved something very considerable to get the Syrians to give this up. ...

Just got in from my local Micro Pub so this is beer talking.

I am a right wing supporter of UKIP

Stop the EU and stop mass immigration.

But I must agree with you on your analysis of the Palestine question.

[westlondoncarparts]

Today we learn that Syria has submitted chemical weapons inventory details to the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons as required under the deal brokered by President Putin and his team.

The Syrian chemical weapons inventory was built up as part of the web of distrust and broken international relationships in the Middle East. It was intended to be the Syrian defence against nuclear arms attack by Israel. Israel has track record against Syria when in the 1967 Six Day War it invaded sovereign Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian territory. At the time, Syria and Egypt had political union as the United Arab Republic. Israel still occupies the Syrian Golan Heights illegally in breach of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242.

It is a big achievement for President Putin to get Syria to sign up to the Chemical Weapons Convention and to hand over details of its chemical weapons inventory and to commit to have that inventory destroyed.

The difference between David Cameron and President Putin is that if Ed Miliband had not declined to support David Cameron’s call to arms, it is quite likely that by now the UK would have participated in the bombing of Syria in a way which would not have achieved any problem solving and which would have only made a very difficult situation worse.

In my book, it is President Putin who has put David Cameron in his place by showing up David Cameron’s poor judgement and poor problem solving with regard to this particular situation.

[MPS16]

....In my book, it is President Putin who has put David Cameron in his place by showing up David Cameron’s poor judgement and poor problem solving with regard to this particular situation.

And you can also substitute the name Obama for that of Cameron, and the statement still holds water.

[westlondoncarparts]

As I have posted in a number of threads on this Forum, outside of the blinkered uninformed stereotype projections that the West keeps throwing at him, Vladimir Putin is a very clever person and a reasonably decent person and above all else is never to be underestimated. He is much smarter than the Western politicians.

He helped to avoid Barack Obama and our own British fourteen pints a day William Hague from bombing Syria.

When the Crimean population saw what was happening in Kiev with the Fascists following the Western sponsored attempts at regime change in Ukraine, the Americans and NATO lost their goal of accessing the Black Sea naval bases in the Republic of Crimea when over 70% of the Crimean population eligible to vote decided to ask to join the Russian Federation when they had their democratic referendum.

Now today we have the confirmation of the first signs that the treatment of Putin by the West like some kind of naughty schoolboy by imposing sanctions upon him is going to backfire. Although there is a time lag between signing and implementation, the long awaited gas deal between Russia and China has now been signed. The risk here is that once the pipeline infrastructure is in place, Russia will have the choice of deciding who to sell its oil and gas to. Any more bullying from the West towards Russia and some of the Europeans might need to reflect upon how cold they are prepared to be during their sub zero winters. Some of the European countries are very close to exhausting some of their own national supplies of fossil fuels and need Russian oil and gas.

Putin a cretin? I do not think so. He and Sergey Lavrov seem to be the only politicians with statesman like qualities walking the soil of Europe at the present time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27503017

[westlondoncarparts]

Following the Western sponsored coup in Kiev which brought extremists into the Ukrainian Government, there was a democratic referendum in which an overwhelming majority of the population of the eastern provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk voted to declare themselves independent of Ukraine in a new country. They did not wish to accept the undemocratic Western sponsored coup in Kiev. They then declared independence. Donetsk and Luhansk decided to join together to work to create the Federal State of Novorossiya or New Russia, which is an old historical name for the area. This new state asked for recognition by the Russian Federation. This has not been given because the official line of President Putin is that internal matters within the former Ukraine should be dealt with by Ukraine and not by external third party countries and that the two former provinces and the Ukraine Government should be in dialogue to resolve issues.

Rather than respect the democratic process and the voting in these two provinces and enter into dialogue, the Ukrainian Government has taken the Western approach of shoot first and ask questions later to try to regain territorial control of these two provinces. An all out civil war has been underway in parts of the two provinces for several weeks as the Ukraine military have moved in. The provincial capital cities of Donetsk and Luhansk have been encircled and under siege by the Ukrainian military. This week residential areas on the outskirts of Donetsk City have been shelled repeatedly by the Ukrainian army as they have been in previous weeks. Residential homes have been destroyed there this week as in previous weeks. It is as if the British army had decided to shell repeatedly Uxbridge or Hounslow or Kingston on the outskirts of London without consideration of the fact that they are residential areas.

The United Nations Security Council estimated recently that 118,000 people from the two provinces have fled as refugees into other parts of Ukraine. It also estimated that around 740,000 have fled as refugees over the border into Russia.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2014/sc11508.doc.htm

Those estimates are now out of date.

It is a very serious situation when so many people in the two provinces, many of whom have Russian ethnicity through the historical family bloodlines, have fled for their lives across the border into the Russian Federation as an eventual consequence of the West undertaking regime change in Kiev. They have had their lives destroyed by the actions of the West.

None of this gets reported properly in the Western media.

The Western nations responsible for the breaking of Ukraine have steadfastly refused to accept that there is a genuine democratic and refugee crisis in the two eastern provinces. They have refused to send humanitarian aid into eastern Ukraine to help the innocent residents who have no power, no water and food running out. For weeks President Putin has been trying to organise aid for eastern Ukraine and for weeks he has been knocked back by the Western nations because they keep spinning the propaganda line that President Putin would use humanitarian aid as a pretext to invade these two provinces. So the Western nations would prefer to have people die in eastern Ukraine rather than allow aid in.

Finally today we hear that it looks as if President Putin will work around the obstacles put in front of him by the West to try to save the lives of people in eastern Ukraine. A convoy of nearly 300 trucks with humanitarian supplies have left Moscow and are heading towards Donetsk and Luhansk. Once the inventory on the trucks has been agreed with the Red Cross, the convoy will enter Ukraine under the auspices of the Red Cross. There is always the possibility that Ukraine or the West will try to prevent the convoy crossing the Ukraine border but for the moment it looks as if help is on its way to Donetsk and Luhansk.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28751447

In the context of President Putin being called a cretin on this website, it was the Western powers on the United Nations Security Council that were luke warm about providing humanitarian aid. Without President Putin, nobody else would be trying to save these people in eastern Ukraine. He is the only one trying to save lives. As for David Cameron, the UK’s representative on the EU’s Council of Ministers, and who is therefore partly directly responsible for the EU trying to break Ukraine’s traditional relationships with Russia, and who holds some accountability for the ensuing crisis in Ukraine, what has he been doing about the humanitarian crisis? He has been on holiday in Portugal. David Cameron is the man who signs the cheques to fund NATO. NATO has been full of belligerence against Russia with respect to allowing in humanitarian aid. What has the British NATO paymaster David Cameron been doing to get NATO to back down so that humanitarian aid can be delivered to eastern Ukraine? He has been on holiday in Portugal.

There is also another major humanitarian crisis in Iraq at present which is ultimately one of the consequences of the illegal British invasion of Iraq. As one of the nations that did not recognise the territorial sovereignty of Iraq, Britain has a moral responsibility to contribute to the problem solving around the consequences of that invasion. So as the boss of Britain, what has David Cameron been doing to try to help sort that crisis out? He has been on holiday in Portugal.

In a democratic society, people are free to call President Putin a cretin if they so wish. However, he is a cretin that does leadership, something we do not really have in the UK. He makes things happen. One of the differences between President Putin and David Cameron at the present time with all these major international crises to deal with is that David Cameron has taken time out to go on holiday to Portugal whilst President Putin has been behind his desk at the Kremlin trying to help improve matters.

Let’s see who tries to stop the humanitarian aid getting into Ukraine. The lives of innocent people are at risk in this situation.

[suesjools]

I agree with the above to a large extent.

However; Russia was only one of many nations fighting the Nazis.

It is true they took the brunt of the Nazi onslaught and suffered terribly.

But they were also sustained by US and British supplies sent via the arctic convoys, these convoys suffered their own terrible losses.

Then there was the bombing campaign by the USAF and RAF; this was in effect a second front.

Russia did not defeat the Nazis on their own, neither did we. It took many nations to fight in unity to achieve this victory.

And it will take United Nations to confront and defeat tyranny today.

Fat chance of that happening!

Well put and so true.

I do hope the last part is wrong, but, unfortunately, I think you're right on the money, sigh...

Best wishes for many sales to all,

[westlondoncarparts]

The Russian humanitarian aid for the Ukranian Provinces of Lugansk and Donetsk was needed urgently. People there have been without water, power and food supplies for weeks. The aid had been held up at the Ukrainian border for inspections of the Russian trucks with perishable fruit and vegetables about to go bad. No Russian military equipment was found on the trucks inspected to date but still permission was not given by the Ukrainian Government for the inspected trucks to proceed, even though President Putin said that they could be accompanied by the Ukrainian military. Today we hear that President Putin has unilaterally ordered the trucks into Ukraine so that the supplies can reach the people who need them as quickly as possible. He has said that there are no legitimate reasons for the Ukrainian Government to hold up the convoy any longer. There are thousands of people close to death as a result of the relentless shelling of towns and cities by the Ukrainian Government and yet the Ukrainian Government would not expedite authorisation for the aid convoy to proceed. The Ukrainian Government would allow people to die whilst the convoy that could save lives was not given permission to cross the border. The trucks have now entered Ukrainian territory without the permission of the Ukrainian Government and consequently not under the auspices of the Red Cross.

The West has today called for the convoy to be withdrawn.

In the context of the remarks made about President Putin at the start of this thread, at the level of basic human decency President Putin is the only leading international politician who has made any constructive efforts to help save lives in what was Eastern Ukraine. The West that sponsored the coup that started the current train of events has not done anything to help the people who have been shelled out of their homes and are destitute and starving.

At the level of politics, President Putin has shown again how he outruns the West. In the great Ukrainian poker play, President Putin has called the bluff of the West and the Western powers now have to show their true hands. They either have to let the convoy progress and support the convoy or show the world that they would prefer politics over saving lives. Their bluster so far today has had to be tempered by this but essentially they have been condemning Russia for trying to save lives and yet again have done nothing themselves to try to save lives. The USA and the EU have gone so far today as to say that the convoy should be withdrawn. That would mean the loss of lives that could be saved by the food and water on the convoy trucks.

In the context of the remarks made about President Putin and David Cameron at the start of this thread, I rather think it is a question of President Putin showing David Cameron rather than the other way around. Having been part of the EU policy making process that helped to trigger the Ukrainian crisis, it is not unreasonable to say that David Cameron has a moral responsibility to try to save lives in Eastern Ukraine. It is not unreasonable to suggest that he should be at the United Nations Security Council working around the clock to try to save lives in the mess that he has helped to create. But instead, having already had one summer holiday in Portugal, he is now taking a second summer holiday in Cornwall. Meanwhile President Putin is still on duty and not on holiday.

And going off at a tangent, British (and other EU) taxpayers are now going to have to pay for the compensation that the EU is going to pay to farmers for the loss of trade resulting from the Russian retaliation against EU sanctions. Maybe something else that our Prime Minister should be trying to sort out rather than going on holiday again.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/do...-needs-aid.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28903829

[countryfeedback87]

And today the New York Times has published a communication from President Putin to the population of the USA which can be read at
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...pagewanted=all

It shows there is one national leader who can do joined up thinking.

Well it's hard not to like the man after reading that... !

[moonwitch]

I am a right wing supporter of UKIP

Stop the EU and stop mass immigration.

I'm a lefty supporter of the BNP...funny old world isn't it?