I've just done a search for Women shorts, ladies shorts and shorts.

[deanosaur1972]

I have done a search for Womens Shorts and Womans Shorts. Below is what it brings up. I honestly can't see anything wild or problematic with that.

You might want to remove all those bay links!

The search result for womens shorts on TOS also brings up:

Vehicle Parts & Accessories (399)
Crafts (89)
Health & Beauty (70)
Home, Furniture & DIY (68)
Books, Comics & Magazines (56)
Collectables (117)
Business, Office & Industrial (40)
Jewellery & Watches (36)
Wholesale & Job Lots (15)
Sports Memorabilia (13)
Computers/Tablets & Networking (8)
Toys & Games (4)
Music (7)
Art (8)
Sound & Vision (2)
Baby (13)
Dolls & Bears (2)

So the eBid search would be exactly the same as a browser/buyer would expect to see given the search terms used.

[crafters_corner_2]

My search for Womans Shorts honestly didn't bring up all those. The only category I got was:

Clothes, Shoes & Accessories.

(Remembered not to cut & paste this time - thanks for the heads-up, Deano)

[deanosaur1972]

My search for Womans Shorts honestly didn't bring up all those. The only category I got was:

Clothes, Shoes & Accessories.

(Remembered not to cut & paste this time - thanks for the heads-up, Deano)

Your search did, however it was under the more at the end.

Because of the amount of different categories it brought up over there it stuffs a lot under the more bit. So it prioritizes clothing, but ultimately the search results are exactly the same - on eBid the clothing still appears at the top as it is the category with the most results. The only difference being (as you know) over there the results will skewed to which sellers they want to appear at the top.

Also over there you can search for non clothing items and what appears at the top can be clothing - with the cats for what you are actually looking for being hidden under the more bit. That has been happening off and on over there for the last year and a lot of the non-clothing buyers will have found eBid because they haven't been able to find something on the bay which is actually there, but hidden.

A presumptive search engine can be extremely dangerous.

[crafters_corner_2]

Your search did, however it was under the more at the end.

Because of the amount of different categories it brought up over there it stuffs a lot under the more bit. So it prioritizes clothing, but ultimately the search results are exactly the same - on eBid the clothing still appears at the top as it is the category with the most results. The only difference being (as you know) over there the results will skewed to which sellers they want to appear at the top.

Also over there you can search for non clothing items and what appears at the top can be clothing - with the cats for what you are actually looking for being hidden under the more bit. That has been happening off and on over there for the last year and a lot of the non-clothing buyers will have found eBid because they haven't been able to find something on the bay which is actually there, but hidden.

A presumptive search engine can be extremely dangerous.

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that, Deano. I am obviously rather naive when it comes to the workings of TOS.

But I am not alone in my naivity of these things, and the restrictive nature of eBid's search engine must surely frustrate and deter potential buyers.

[astral276]

And on TOS it brings up the same wild assortment of categories, including a lot in car parts, books, jewellery, home furnishings, collectables.

So it brings up the same results, just as a buyer would expect.

Anybody that cannot be bothered to gain a basic understanding of how search engines work is going to run into problems locating what they want all over the internet.

Even HAL had problems understanding the needs of humans.

[gazza]

The results:

Women shorts gave me 1902 listings including:
jewellery and watches
books, comics and magazines
cars and vehicles.

Ladies shorts gave me 380 listings including:
collectables
art
business industrial
jewellery watches

Shorts gave me 6725 listings including:
books comics
art
stamps
toys
electronics
cars vehicles
music
house home
dolls
computing

No wonder buyers give up.

The search facility searches titles and descriptions (optional). Are you saying if someone searches for womens shorts we should automatically only search in the clothing category?

Gazza

[astral276]

Are you saying if someone searches for womens shorts we should automatically only search in the clothing category?

If that is what they are saying then I hope you aren't listening.

[deanosaur1972]

If that is what they are saying then I hope you aren't listening.

Ditto..... (and I had to google HAL on post #15)

---------------------

Just to put things in perspective on the search.

Say someone comes on eBid - they are a car enthusiast and nuts about all things to do with MG Midget. So they do a search for MG Midget or MG Midget Car and it then just returns items under Cars.... So that would mean lost sales far and wide, if there was a birthday card, postcard, toy car, t-shirt, sticker, book, craft item.... etc etc (the list is endless) all relating to MG Midget Car they wouldn't sell. Yet they would all be relevant to the search term used.

So the search engine needs to return exactly what a person enters into their search string. If the search engines starts to assume sales will be lost.

[Gill]

The search facility searches titles and descriptions (optional). Are you saying if someone searches for womens shorts we should automatically only search in the clothing category?

Gazza

My immediate reaction to your question is Yes because the other cats shown in the search are picking up the keyword 'short'. Only the Book cat picked up the keyword 'women'.

I'm not a technical person but if your search facility enabled sets of keywords it would bring up the results people were looking for rather than a load of unnecessary cats.

Also Gazza, the search facility only searches titles and descriptions if ticked and if the advanced search is used. I used the large search bar on the green line.

Ditto..... (and I had to google HAL on post #15)

Just to put things in perspective on the search.

Say someone comes on eBid - they are a car enthusiast and nuts about all things to do with MG Midget. So they do a search for MG Midget or MG Midget Car and it then just returns items under Cars.... So that would mean lost sales far and wide, if there was a birthday card, postcard, toy car, t-shirt, sticker, book, craft item.... etc etc (the list is endless) all relating to MG Midget Car they wouldn't sell. Yet they would all be relevant to the search term used.

So the search engine needs to return exactly what a person enters into their search string. If the search engines starts to assume sales will be lost.

If I was looking for an MG Midget Car birthday card I would put those keywords into the search bar. The same goes for postcards, toys etc. Also the search on eBid is not a search engine it's a search facility. IMO these are not the same.

What you really need to search for is "Ladies" "Shorts"

Searching on "Ladies Shorts" will not return items with titles of the likes of 'Ladies Blue Cotton Shorts'.

'Ladies' and 'Shorts' are both plurals, so the search engine, unless commanded otherwise, will also return hits on the singulars of 'Lady' and 'Short'.

The failure to match on both singular and plural of words was something sellers were complaining of a while back, and eBid did a lot of work to make the search engine do so.

What it comes down to is users understanding how search engines work and how to get the best out of them.

Probably what could be done is for eBid to place a link 'Searching Tips' in each search box pointing to http://uk.ebid.net/help_bid.php#1

Your search came back with the best results Astral. "womens" "shorts" came back with 3 cats - clothes, crafts and sporting goods but who uses quotes?

As I replied to Deano, eBid is not a search engine but a search facility. IMO these are not the same.

[astral276]

Your search came back with the best results Astral. "womens" "shorts" came back with 3 cats - clothes, crafts and sporting goods but who uses quotes?

As I replied to Deano, eBid is not a search engine but a search facility. IMO these are not the same.

Err... I do. So does anyone who knows how to get the best out of search engines, wherever on the web you use them. It can save you a lot of time filtering out results returned because your search was too ambiguous. The principle applies equally wherever - Google, Bing, eBay, eBid...

I won't argue with you over the semantics of engine/facility, they both serve the same function for searching. Google's search 'engine' searches the web, eBid's search 'facility' searches eBid. If you prefer to call one an engine and the other a facility then I am not going to censure you for doing so.